20 Comments

1. d neal:

Dear Roger:

Are you devolving into an MPG fanatic? Perhaps you are not aware of the old saw, “Everyone lies about his gas mileage.”

Jun 30, 2008 - 10:07 am 2. Roger L Simon:

I don’t lie about my gas mileage. I only lie about my tennis.

Jun 30, 2008 - 10:46 am 3. Victor Erimita:

The hybrid technology in the Prius cost far more than you will save in gas during the lifetime of the car (or at least the battery—see below.) So you would have saved more money buying a Camry. Yeah, you’re saving at the pump, but you way overpaid when you bought the car, so no net savings.

The energy (almost all fossil-fuel sourced) it takes to produce the Prius’s battery exceeds the energy it will save over its entire useful life (about 8 years.) So you aren’t saving fossil fuel or net producing less “greenhouse gas” (even if you believe the global warming hype.)

When the battery gives out in 8 years, it will cost you thousands to replace. The new one will also take more energy to produce than it will save during its useful life. It contains a myriad of toxic substances, which will need to be disposed of somewhere. Since Priuses have not been selling in big numbers for 8 years yet, this phenomenon has yet to come on the radar screen in a big way.

Priuses don’t save money, and they don’t save energy or “The Planet.” But, just as for Billy Crystal’s “Fernando,” it is better to look good than to feel good, for today’s ecofashionistas, it’s better to think you are doing some eco good than to actually be doing it. The car as moral jewelry.

Anyway, when global cooling replaces global warming as our big fear in a few years, it will be incumbent on us all to produce as much CO2 as possible to fend off the ice age. Priuses will become immoral cars, and everyone will have to drive Hummers to impress their frineds.

Jun 30, 2008 - 11:12 am 4. Joe Moineau:

Roger, no such thing as an”ex-Marine”, unless your name is John Murtha. Next time it’s “former-Marine”. Thank you.

Jun 30, 2008 - 11:22 am 5. david foster:

“The energy (almost all fossil-fuel sourced) it takes to produce the Prius’s battery exceeds the energy it will save over its entire useful life (about 8 years)”…I’ve heard this assertion before, but have never seen a credible source. Any links?

Jun 30, 2008 - 11:38 am 6. CR:

” I got 57 mpg on my way home”

I regularly get 41 MPG in my ‘04 Civic (standard engine and powertrain with manual shift). The fact that it cost a sight less than the hybrid version at purchase time means there’s a lot less to amortize and the hybrids advantage all but evaporates if you don’t do lots of stop-and-go driving. That latter point is academic to those who live in SoCal, I admit.

Jun 30, 2008 - 11:43 am 7. promoguy:

Long time Republicans don’t worry about it as much as those that have come recently from the dark side.

Jun 30, 2008 - 11:49 am 8. Dan D:

OK, I have averaged 47.3mpg over the last 59,000 miles on a VW Jetta TDI with manual transmission. Not that big a savings given the price of diesel these days, but doing my part to cut down on petroleum usage and general waste. We outdoor types in Amish Appalachia never looked too kindly on waste and were conservationist when Mark Trail was about the only media type flaunting the eco-cool stuff.

Jun 30, 2008 - 11:56 am 9. ShoreMark:

Eh, over the almost 800,000 miles I’ve driven, I’d guess I’ve averaged about 18 MPG. I’ll probably buy an new ‘08 V8 of some flavor when the ’09s start hitting the lots this fall, they should be dirt cheap by then, not that they’re not falling through the floor in incentives already…

Jun 30, 2008 - 6:23 pm 10. TW:

My wife comes from a long line of Marines, and I was told either “Retired” or “Non Active Duty” are the correct terms, unless one was kicked out.

Jun 30, 2008 - 8:36 pm 11. Dave:

I drive a honking big old four wheel drive 3/4 ton Chevrolet crew cab. It is paid for. At the end of ten years, you fully amortize your cost and I will fully amortize mine. On a per mile basis, care to make a small wager who will come out ahead?

Jun 30, 2008 - 8:42 pm 12. Roger L Simon:

Dave, I’m not in competition with you. I’m not even in competition with myself (on this). I’m just having fun and experimenting with new technology. Relax.

Jun 30, 2008 - 9:35 pm 13. Webutante:

Victor is right about the hidden and never publicized energy cost of building a car like the Prius. Probably never will be a net energy saving if those real energy costs are factored in…but it’s still a fun car to drive and a great conversation piece…..since we’re bragging, I wanna say my new little four cyclinder Ford Escape with standard transmission is doing it’s job as it hops, skips and jumps across the USA. Great gas mileage, plenty of pickup even in the higher elevations not to mention lots of room inside.

Jun 30, 2008 - 9:49 pm 14. BJS:

Whenever I read about Greeniness and technology and a Priapic Prius or two I fail to see much mention of motorcycles or scooters or mopeds or nuthin’.

How can this be?

Are all mallards poseurs? I fear so and I fear that the Hell’s Angels, and I, are greener than thee.

Jun 30, 2008 - 10:22 pm 15. BJS:

I just noticed, I haven’t been here in a while, your photo. Nice hat.

Malheuresement, you look, nose and eyes-wise, much like me. You need a motorcycle and a full face helmet, to save gas, save the earth, be cool, accelerate very, very quickly and enjoy life. I suggest an SV-650.

I never understand how a man living in California can not own a bike.

Jun 30, 2008 - 10:27 pm 16. David WL:

Mr. Simon:

As a fellow Prius owner, who shared in the discussion on your first Prius thread, just let me say:

They do not want to hear it.

Nonetheless, some quick corrections to misinformation by some of the posters:

1. There is no evidence that “batteries will give out in 8 years.” Given that the batteries have been out for 8 years now, if this claim was accurate, we should see reports of widespread failures in the first model year or two. I have heard none.

2. “the hybrids advantage all but evaporates if you don’t do lots of stop-and-go driving.”
Nonsense. I get higher gas mileage on 15-20 miles of continuous driving than I get on stop-and-go. In general, my stop-and-go driving puts my MPG down, not up. (Note: most of my stop-and-go is on hills, where it is difficult to get into a consistent all-electric mode at low speeds.) But in any case, it is my long-distance driving that allows me to achieve average efficiencies of 50 to 55 mpg, not the other way around. (On very long distance under ideal conditions, I can approach 60 mpg.)

3. Amortization: The Prius holds its resale value much better than the average car. One can get close to new-car price on a car that’s one or two years old. This reason, along with the high gas mileage over the life of the car, and its reliability, means that the Prius, in spite of its relatively high initial cost, is as almost as inexpensive to own as the most economical of small cars.

Once again, I continue to be amazed at the willingness of people to pronounce opinions and assert alleged facts when they clearly do not have personal experience with or evidence for the matter.

Jul 1, 2008 - 8:20 am 17. Peg C.:

We just traded in an ‘07 Infiniti G35X that used premium and averaged 19 mpg for a new ‘08 Accord V6 that uses regular and gets 30 or a hair under. This is all the compromising we’re willing to do (I already gave up my beloved Lexus SUV). That G35X was my dream car but the mileage was so dreadful we couldn’t enjoy driving it. The Accord (esp. the V6) is not vastly different and it’s beautifully made and styled. Sound is very important to us so we always add an amp/sub to every car. We’d be fighting over who gets to drive it except I work from home (also a huge help cost-wise!). I automatically get it on my days off.

Priuses (Priui?) seem nice but I don’t like what driving one would say about me…unless I put a “Peace Through Superior Firepower” sticker on it! Heh. I have a Fred sticker on my VW GTI. I just love to rub libs the wrong way.

Jul 1, 2008 - 2:04 pm 18. Randy Brandt:

Roger,

Kudo’s on the 57 mpg – less money for the mullahs – but could you do something about the cloud of ’smug’ your leaving?

Jul 2, 2008 - 3:41 am 19. Larry J:

When I worked on a flightline fueling private planes many years ago, I noticed that certain personality types tended to fly certain types of planes. For example, I encountered a disproportionate number of assholes who flew Piper Commanches. Now, Commanches are good planes and the pilot population at large are generally good people, but for some reason just about every time I services a Commanche, the pilot was an asshole.

I’ve noticed the same thing about people who drive the Prius. “South Park” got it right in their “Smug” episode a few years ago. The attitude of the Prius owners I’ve encountered is enough to turn me off on the car. The next time I’m looking to buy a vehicle, it may well be a hybrid but I doubt it’ll be a Prius.

Jul 2, 2008 - 6:34 am 20. david foster:

Larry J…that’s really interesting…I assume this isn’t a more general observation about Piper vs Cessna pilots?

Any theories as to the reason why obnoxious people would pick this particular plane?

Any Commanche pilots out there who would like to differ?

Jul 3, 2008 - 8:36 am

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