27 Comments

tess mcneil:

I suppose, given that you are non-partisan, you are also troubled by — and might note — the nasty stuff on McCain’s web site:

http://tinyurl.com/6mmce8

http://tinyurl.com/6zzo6c

yrs,
tess

Jul 3, 2008 - 9:53 am Roger L Simon:

I never said I was non-partisan, at least not completely; no one really is. But nasty stuff on the McCain site should also be noted. You are correct.

Jul 3, 2008 - 10:03 am John Kelly:

Trying to jump McCain on his military record is big mistake for the Obama folks. It leaves Senator Obama open to a side by side comparison of McCain’s truly distinguished Navy career and rack of medals for valor with a blank page or at best a single line that a young Barack made a sash full of merit badges in his Boy Scout Troop in Honolulu in 1975. (I have no idea if he ever was a Scout.)

Honestly if anybody is going to tube Obama it is hate mongering moon bat supporters who step on his message again and again and don’t seem know that preaching to the choir means you lose.

I think hitting McCain’s age only brings light on Obama’s realtive youth and his very short political resume. Although he is ten years younger than Senator Obama, Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana has a resume that is about ten feet longer and one with hard evidence of real leadership.

Jul 3, 2008 - 10:36 am Jay:

The point is, Roger, that you probably wouldn’t have noted it unless called on it. The Obama site is quite large, and unmoderated, yet you blow the dog whistle by indirectly suggesting (”I don’t know the extent, if any…”) that the campaign is coordinating this kind of dirty pool.

Obama prefaces all of his remarks on McCain by honoring his service, and you know that, yet you further the lie that Obama is anti-American.

Stay classy.

Jul 3, 2008 - 11:34 am Bobo in Texas:

As in “I honor Sen. McCain’s service, however I must point out the fact that he is a war criminal”?

super classy

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:09 pm David Thomson:

“But nasty stuff on the McCain site should also be noted.”

The nasty stuff on the McCain site initially appears to be written by commenters—and not authorized posters. Also, a couple seem to be mere evidence of tongue in cheek humor. No, the stuff on the Obama seems to be far worse.

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:10 pm Mark Van Wagoner:

“Obama prefaces all of his remarks on McCain by honoring his service . . . .”

And, that, like a sale of indulgence, opens wide the gate for all the defamation that follows.

It’t the same old stuff. No “change” there. I, for one, honored Kerry’s service, but found him to be a liar, an idiot and wholly unqualified to do anything but marry for money. See? Does that work? Am I excused? Pardoned?

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:18 pm tim maguire:

Another point, Jay, is that Roger may not have known about the stuff on McCain’s site until it was pointed out to him. At which time he agreed with Tess.

How flawlessly omniscient does a person have to be before they can express disapproval of dispicable behavior?

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:20 pm srlucado:

Nastygrams on McCain’s site notwithstanding, this does fit with the Obama pattern of subordinates taking cheap shots while The Anointed denies, denounces, or demurs.

Scott

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:21 pm David Thomson:

“…you further the lie that Obama is anti-American.”

Roger L. Simon can speak for himself. However, I would personally never describe Obama as overtly anti-American—but he is subconsciously a self-hating American. There is a sharp distinction between the two. Obama was raised in an intellectual atmosphere that considered the United States as an imperialist nation crapping on the dark skinned victims of the Third World. I have actually read an article by Obama’s father—and the gentleman was most unfriendly towards the West. He advocated an indigenous African form of socialism. Obama’s mother was also something of a nonviolent political radical.

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:22 pm Bob:

I guess the point is that bad stuff from the Obama camp is justified because there’s bad stuff from the McCain camp. i.e. Two Wrongs make a Right.

Whatever happened to the “politics of change”? This looks more like the old Politics of Deniability

One other thing apparently hasn’t changed. You CAN fool some of the people all the time.
Bob

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:45 pm David Thomson:

“The McCain web site also has wacky anti-Obama stuff on it.

Something to know.”

I don’t have the time at the moment to seriously study the issue. Could you please point out some examples of “wacky anti-Obama stuff?” How do you define “wacky?”

Jul 3, 2008 - 12:46 pm Nobody:

“Obama was raised in an intellectual atmosphere … read an article by Obama’s father … Obama’s mother was also …”

Obama barely knew his father, and wasn’t raised by his mother, so their opinions can’t be called something Obama was raised with. You would have to look to his mother’s parents for that information.

Jul 3, 2008 - 1:11 pm KenB:

Whether or not Obama’s campaign orchestrates such slurs, if they become frequent and widespread, I suspect they will help McCain. Who but the radical Left would not be offended at the suggestion, in effect, that all U.S. troops in Vietnam were war criminals. Even though those of the radical Left probably believe that, it is impolitic to bring it up.

Jul 3, 2008 - 1:29 pm Yawn:

Why should he stay classy? Its his site, he can say whatever he wants to. But that aside, I do give more points and credit to people who do stay “classy”. I don’t think he did anything unclassy here, he merely did what many on the other side do. He never claimed to be non-partisan, so what’s your point then? That he is showing his bias? That would be self-evident if you look at this site more than once. I don’t think it is necessarily a lie that Obama is “anti-American”. He certainly isn’t showing off a great deal of “pro-American” sentiment, although now that he got the nomination he is certainly increasing the amount.

The thing is that a simple “I don’t really endorse this” disclaimer on a website doesn’t cover it. If Obama came out and said “Knock it off, its a low blow and I’m serious about running a clean campaign and really mean it when I say CHANGE” then this stuff wouldn’t seem the way it does. Which seems like a little “wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say no more” between the offical campaign and those who support it, but are playing every dirty trick in the book so the “offical” campaign can keep its hands clean of a dirty, very anti-war, anti-vet, anti-anyone who wasn’t a liberal in the late 1960’s ad. McCain has actually come out and done this on several occasions. Then again, Obama has also (Wesley Clark is an example). Maybe we are just needing them to do it more than they have. But I do recall that McCain has done this more than Obama has.

Even more, this kind of thing shows Obama as just another standard Chicago politician with all the baggage that entails. If he is going to run on change and run a nice clean campaign, then a simple disclaimer on his website falls way short of backing up the talk.

Chicago = Dirty Politicians

Obama is a Chicago Politician. It will take some serious action, and not some disclaimer on a website, to make me believe in his “change”.

Jul 3, 2008 - 1:33 pm Bubba:

“…Obama’s father—and the gentleman was most unfriendly towards the West. He advocated an indigenous African form of socialism.”

Well, it has worked so well in Africa….

Jul 3, 2008 - 2:09 pm Terrye:

I think that one point that should be noted is that Obama is supposed to be above all this. He is the guy who is always telling us he is about change and hope and all that jazz.

And yet……. when a poster on his website calls McCain a war criminal his supporters jump on McCain for not policing his site better. Projection.

Just listening to Obama preface his remarks with some self serving stuff about how he respects McCain’s service is so much blah blah blah.

Jul 3, 2008 - 2:32 pm Terrye:

And I think that anyone who sit in Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years and listen to that God Damn America ranting and raving and not get up and walk out…has to be anti American. Someone who loved America or was proud of America, would have felt the need at some point to defend her. Apparently Obama did not.

Jul 3, 2008 - 2:35 pm Bob:

How many on both sites, are from the other side? Should we start checking out who is who?

I Know some folks from the “other” side were posting vicious stuff on a blog I used to run. I quit because of the nasty things that used to be posted.

Jul 3, 2008 - 2:42 pm Jeff:

Obama supporters …

Please snap out of it …

Its fine if you don’t vote for McCain but don’t vote for the lie that is Obama either … you are being conned … by a racist anti-American …

Jul 3, 2008 - 2:49 pm pierre:

Obama using surrogates to attack McCain while Obama says he has always honored McCain and that his own patriotism should also not be questioned may be a politically savvy way to take one of his weak points out of discussion (with the help of some partisan media) but by focusing on questioning the merits of military service it may have a negative impact for Obama among reasoning persons. One of the major tools of a President is the military. Whether the actual use or more often than not, implied use, the state of the armed forces of a nation is the elephant in the room of most statesmanship. McCain, through his service experiences, knows the capabilities and more importantly the limitations of the military. He knows first hand the costs, especially human. He knows that while a strong military is an ace in the deck of statesmanship it can be trumped and cannot be played every hand. Having been in a position of command he understands organization and what is the political environment but a pyramid of subordinates? Obama will be like Carter and Clinton in not understanding the tool at hand and will use it ineffectively or solely to score political points at home.

Jul 3, 2008 - 4:03 pm Richard of Oregon:

So, they want to refight Viet Nam? Sounds like a good way to turn lots of folks off to me.

Jul 4, 2008 - 10:20 am gk1:

I would think obama would make a huge contribution to this country if he could be the first lefty to truly value the military and it’s mission. Refighting the culture wars with vietnam seems to be something of a fools errand. Does he still need to throw red meat to his base? Obama is getting bad advice from his braintrust on this one, running against McCain’s war service only magnifies how little obama has actually done in his lifetime.

Jul 4, 2008 - 10:35 am Jay:

“And I think that anyone who sit in Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years and listen to that God Damn America ranting and raving and not get up and walk out…has to be anti American.”

And I think someone whom, for over a year, courted the endorsement of a man who believes the Holocaust was “God’s work” has lost the right to critique whose pastor said what.

Sorry, Terry, your party is going to lose in a landslide.

Jul 4, 2008 - 5:40 pm Jay:

If anyone on this site wants to ask a real question, by the way, it ought to be this: should candidates for high office leave their websites unmoderated, and isn’t the act of doing so really an affirmation of the values they are sworn to protect?

Jul 4, 2008 - 5:44 pm Gary Rosen:

“I would think obama would make a huge contribution to this country if he could be the first lefty to truly value the military and it’s mission.”

No longer possible. The left now defines itself by denigrating any projection of American power. Joe Lieberman is a perfect liberal on almost every other issue but he has not only been read out of the Democrat party, he has been vilified (often with thinly veiled or even unveiled antisemitism) for supporting the war in Iraq.

Jul 5, 2008 - 10:37 am Gary Rosen:

“your party is going to lose in a landslide”

I’d love to call you on that the morning of Nov. 5. But you will be nowhere to be found, chickenhawk.

Jul 5, 2008 - 10:47 am

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