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	<title>Comments on: Gaza: the definitive statement</title>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105788</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 22:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105788</guid>
		<description>That was well put David, and probably full of truth. Brings to mind tho that the big picture is a liberal democracy of a few million isolated citizens by all objective measures continues to thrive despite a relentless sixty year assault on its being by an enemy which in local form alone outnumbers it a hundred to one --and has the whip hand on global energy supplies to boot. So ya gotta see some success somewhere from at least that perspective. Can anyone know for certain that the &quot;80% strategy&quot; on repelling attack isn&#039;t the only one that works --as maddening as it is? Israel broke the two largest attacks --67 and 73 --and had the roads to Cairo and Damascus wide open and a few hours away. But then what? What physical territory can tiny Israel occupy, pacify, deny? IOW, if time alone is the medium of victory --that is, waiting out the rampage, then rope-a-doping the Beast as it were may be the only way. Just for argument&#039;s sake, of course, but look back into history and see the reach &amp; fall pattern of nations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was well put David, and probably full of truth. Brings to mind tho that the big picture is a liberal democracy of a few million isolated citizens by all objective measures continues to thrive despite a relentless sixty year assault on its being by an enemy which in local form alone outnumbers it a hundred to one &#8211;and has the whip hand on global energy supplies to boot. So ya gotta see some success somewhere from at least that perspective. Can anyone know for certain that the &#8220;80% strategy&#8221; on repelling attack isn&#8217;t the only one that works &#8211;as maddening as it is? Israel broke the two largest attacks &#8211;67 and 73 &#8211;and had the roads to Cairo and Damascus wide open and a few hours away. But then what? What physical territory can tiny Israel occupy, pacify, deny? IOW, if time alone is the medium of victory &#8211;that is, waiting out the rampage, then rope-a-doping the Beast as it were may be the only way. Just for argument&#8217;s sake, of course, but look back into history and see the reach &amp; fall pattern of nations.</p>
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		<title>By: Boatbulder</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105583</link>
		<dc:creator>Boatbulder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105583</guid>
		<description>cfBleachers--well said!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cfBleachers&#8211;well said!</p>
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		<title>By: davidingeorgia</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105573</link>
		<dc:creator>davidingeorgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 13:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105573</guid>
		<description>buddy...&quot;Hezbollah victory&quot; to me equals Hezbollah still being around to cause problems at the end of the war, and the Israelis allowed that to happen...if anything, vis a vis the Lebanese gov&#039;t, Hezbollah is in BETTER shape now than it was before 2006...yes, I&#039;m sure Israel won the body count part of the war, but that means very little when you&#039;re fighting people like Hez and Hamas.

and I&#039;m afraid that I&#039;ll stick with &quot;spineless&quot;...when you&#039;re in charge of protecting the safety of your citizens and you let political pressure stop you from doing that, then that qualifies as spineless, gutless, feckless as far as I&#039;m concerned (shrug)...I tend to be blunt, no offense intended...and no, I am most decidedly NOT the same person I was 20-30 (unfortunately plenty old enough for the 30 years to work...lol) years ago, not in many important ways, and I seriously doubt Ehud Barak is either...see link below...apparently he&#039;s the one arguing FOR giving Hamas a breather to rearm and redeploy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/31/israel-rejects-gaza-ceasefire-move

re: Arafat...the Israeli&#039;s big mistake - the one that may well end in the nation&#039;s destruction eventually - is that they let the Americans and Euros talk them into letting the bastard and his thugs back into the country in the first place...the Palestinian areas were a completely different - much better and improving - world until he was let back in to turn it into the terrorist disaster area it is today...this would be another good time for the Israelis to wake up and ignore what the Euros and Americans (as George W Bush continues his descent in feckless, unreliable ally land) are telling them to do about Hamas...stay the course, finish the job...it would be far better to have never bothered starting this if you don&#039;t go all the way, just as it turned out with Hezbollah.

As for what I mean by finishing it? 

Every...last...terrorist...dead. At least, every last one close enough to directly attack citizens of Israel in their own country. Why in the world Israelis insist on believing that stopping short of that - &quot;showing mercy&quot; as it were - will do them a solitary bit of good with the people and nations and media around the world who hate them, I have never been able to figure out. If you&#039;re going to be hated by as many groups/nations as Jews and Israelis are hated by, then you damn well better make sure you are also feared if you want to survive. I&#039;m not sure the Israelis have the stomach for that sort of thing anymore (and surely not the current political leaders), hence my skepticism about this new round of fighting accomplishing much of anything other than more bad PR for Israel. I hate to say it, but that&#039;s my read. I would love for them to prove me wrong, but I ain&#039;t holding my breath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>buddy&#8230;&#8221;Hezbollah victory&#8221; to me equals Hezbollah still being around to cause problems at the end of the war, and the Israelis allowed that to happen&#8230;if anything, vis a vis the Lebanese gov&#8217;t, Hezbollah is in BETTER shape now than it was before 2006&#8230;yes, I&#8217;m sure Israel won the body count part of the war, but that means very little when you&#8217;re fighting people like Hez and Hamas.</p>
<p>and I&#8217;m afraid that I&#8217;ll stick with &#8220;spineless&#8221;&#8230;when you&#8217;re in charge of protecting the safety of your citizens and you let political pressure stop you from doing that, then that qualifies as spineless, gutless, feckless as far as I&#8217;m concerned (shrug)&#8230;I tend to be blunt, no offense intended&#8230;and no, I am most decidedly NOT the same person I was 20-30 (unfortunately plenty old enough for the 30 years to work&#8230;lol) years ago, not in many important ways, and I seriously doubt Ehud Barak is either&#8230;see link below&#8230;apparently he&#8217;s the one arguing FOR giving Hamas a breather to rearm and redeploy:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/31/israel-rejects-gaza-ceasefire-move" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/31/israel-rejects-gaza-ceasefire-move</a></p>
<p>re: Arafat&#8230;the Israeli&#8217;s big mistake &#8211; the one that may well end in the nation&#8217;s destruction eventually &#8211; is that they let the Americans and Euros talk them into letting the bastard and his thugs back into the country in the first place&#8230;the Palestinian areas were a completely different &#8211; much better and improving &#8211; world until he was let back in to turn it into the terrorist disaster area it is today&#8230;this would be another good time for the Israelis to wake up and ignore what the Euros and Americans (as George W Bush continues his descent in feckless, unreliable ally land) are telling them to do about Hamas&#8230;stay the course, finish the job&#8230;it would be far better to have never bothered starting this if you don&#8217;t go all the way, just as it turned out with Hezbollah.</p>
<p>As for what I mean by finishing it? </p>
<p>Every&#8230;last&#8230;terrorist&#8230;dead. At least, every last one close enough to directly attack citizens of Israel in their own country. Why in the world Israelis insist on believing that stopping short of that &#8211; &#8220;showing mercy&#8221; as it were &#8211; will do them a solitary bit of good with the people and nations and media around the world who hate them, I have never been able to figure out. If you&#8217;re going to be hated by as many groups/nations as Jews and Israelis are hated by, then you damn well better make sure you are also feared if you want to survive. I&#8217;m not sure the Israelis have the stomach for that sort of thing anymore (and surely not the current political leaders), hence my skepticism about this new round of fighting accomplishing much of anything other than more bad PR for Israel. I hate to say it, but that&#8217;s my read. I would love for them to prove me wrong, but I ain&#8217;t holding my breath.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105476</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105476</guid>
		<description>They probably had a chance to join the world of sane creatures --if only Arafat had died ten years sooner, when it had become clear to anyone looking that the UN had created such a perfect rifle-shot incentive for just the perfect sort of monster clique to fatten on the UN sea of moral hazard, that&#039;s it&#039;s hard to believe the vast squalor and turpitude exists to serve in the background of a distant &amp; seemingly unconnected larger plan. 

In fact it&#039;s so outrageous that the only people who will ever admit believing it have to first stammer &amp; blush &quot;but please understand, i HATE Joe McCarthy&quot; before they can own up to seeing all those threads leading back to 1917 Moscow and the Kremlin where a few thousand dedicated eastern illuminati keep the nightmare alive and the Lenin unburied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They probably had a chance to join the world of sane creatures &#8211;if only Arafat had died ten years sooner, when it had become clear to anyone looking that the UN had created such a perfect rifle-shot incentive for just the perfect sort of monster clique to fatten on the UN sea of moral hazard, that&#8217;s it&#8217;s hard to believe the vast squalor and turpitude exists to serve in the background of a distant &amp; seemingly unconnected larger plan. </p>
<p>In fact it&#8217;s so outrageous that the only people who will ever admit believing it have to first stammer &amp; blush &#8220;but please understand, i HATE Joe McCarthy&#8221; before they can own up to seeing all those threads leading back to 1917 Moscow and the Kremlin where a few thousand dedicated eastern illuminati keep the nightmare alive and the Lenin unburied.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Gilon</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105422</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Gilon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105422</guid>
		<description>The Palestinians are faced with two alternatives: turn the Gaza Strip into another Hong-Kong or turn it into another Chechnya.
Apparently they have chosen the second alternative, something which we, Israelis, should be happily to oblige these days...


People who live by choice (theirs and their leadership&#039;s) in squalor, and who by choice are permanent basket cases of UNRWA, need humanitarian aid in the form of an army of psychiatrists to cure them from their derangement, which within two generations has reached genetic proportions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Palestinians are faced with two alternatives: turn the Gaza Strip into another Hong-Kong or turn it into another Chechnya.<br />
Apparently they have chosen the second alternative, something which we, Israelis, should be happily to oblige these days&#8230;</p>
<p>People who live by choice (theirs and their leadership&#8217;s) in squalor, and who by choice are permanent basket cases of UNRWA, need humanitarian aid in the form of an army of psychiatrists to cure them from their derangement, which within two generations has reached genetic proportions.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105355</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105355</guid>
		<description>I dunno, david --it&#039;s the same guy --you&#039;re the same guy you were 20 years ago, right (i&#039;d say 30 but you may be too young)? &quot;Spineless&quot; is a rough word --don&#039;t buy that &quot;Hez victory 2006&quot; --clearly Hez doesn&#039;t want another taste or else they&#039;d be throwing stuff by now. When you say the gov&#039;t &quot;won&#039;t finish the job&quot; i&#039;d ask if you&#039;ve thought that through. What you mean, that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, david &#8211;it&#8217;s the same guy &#8211;you&#8217;re the same guy you were 20 years ago, right (i&#8217;d say 30 but you may be too young)? &#8220;Spineless&#8221; is a rough word &#8211;don&#8217;t buy that &#8220;Hez victory 2006&#8243; &#8211;clearly Hez doesn&#8217;t want another taste or else they&#8217;d be throwing stuff by now. When you say the gov&#8217;t &#8220;won&#8217;t finish the job&#8221; i&#8217;d ask if you&#8217;ve thought that through. What you mean, that is.</p>
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		<title>By: lucklucky</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105297</link>
		<dc:creator>lucklucky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 03:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105297</guid>
		<description>&quot;except that Ehud Barak was not the Minister of Defense in the 2006 war with Hezbullah.&quot;

I made a confusion, he retired the troops from Lebanon and was not Defense Minister. I apologise for my mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;except that Ehud Barak was not the Minister of Defense in the 2006 war with Hezbullah.&#8221;</p>
<p>I made a confusion, he retired the troops from Lebanon and was not Defense Minister. I apologise for my mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: davidingeorgia</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105224</link>
		<dc:creator>davidingeorgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105224</guid>
		<description>buddy...I remember all that stuff, thank you very much, and if this was Israel and the Israeli leadership of a generation or two back, I wouldn&#039;t be doubting what they&#039;d do in this situation...and I&#039;m not questioning Barak&#039;s personal heroism (actually, he&#039;s one of my favorite Israeli lefties), but all the stuff you and his other defenders keep bringing up happened a LONG time ago...

and even if I bought into the idea of Barak being willing to do the bitter end thing, HE IS NOT THE BOSS over there...he&#039;s taking orders from as spineless a bunch of politicians as has ever been in charge of Israel. And they&#039;ll pull back before finishing the job. Count on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>buddy&#8230;I remember all that stuff, thank you very much, and if this was Israel and the Israeli leadership of a generation or two back, I wouldn&#8217;t be doubting what they&#8217;d do in this situation&#8230;and I&#8217;m not questioning Barak&#8217;s personal heroism (actually, he&#8217;s one of my favorite Israeli lefties), but all the stuff you and his other defenders keep bringing up happened a LONG time ago&#8230;</p>
<p>and even if I bought into the idea of Barak being willing to do the bitter end thing, HE IS NOT THE BOSS over there&#8230;he&#8217;s taking orders from as spineless a bunch of politicians as has ever been in charge of Israel. And they&#8217;ll pull back before finishing the job. Count on it.</p>
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		<title>By: @Frank</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105148</link>
		<dc:creator>@Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105148</guid>
		<description>Here’s hoping WW3 extends into your backyard. The quicker the fight ends, the quicker you&#039;ll shut up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s hoping WW3 extends into your backyard. The quicker the fight ends, the quicker you&#8217;ll shut up.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/12/29/gaza-the-definitive-statement/#comment-105137</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/?p=4750#comment-105137</guid>
		<description>(i&#039;m sorry --forgot to quote --all but my first para is straight from the wiki)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(i&#8217;m sorry &#8211;forgot to quote &#8211;all but my first para is straight from the wiki)</p>
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