As I write this, comments on the various Pajamas Media posts, including mine, on Joe the Plumber’s journey to Israel for PJTV are approaching one thousand – or perhaps they have already passed that figure. And that’s not counting the other Pajamas network blogs and outlying blogs where the numbers must mount into the tens of thousands. And then there’s the mainstream media commentary. If you Google “joe the plumber + Israel,” you get 618,000 hits. [Now 618,001.-ed. You're right.] I knew that Joe’s foray into war journalism, or whatever you want to call it, would create controversy. But I had no idea it would create a war of its own.
Well, a non-shooting war, but war enough to have people hurling digital epithets across cyberspace at breakneck speed, hiding behind semi-imaginative noms de blog like “Harsh Reality,” while taking no prisoners, letting their ideological brickbats slay their enemies as “moonbats,” “wingnuts” and other similar dodo-brained locutions of our times. Many of these commenters fairly ooze hatred or at least disdain.
Page 1 of 2 Next ->
PJM Home
Pajamas Media appreciates your comments that abide by the following guidelines:
1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a necessary quote or is relevant to the comment.
2. Stay on topic.
3. Disagree, but avoid ad hominem attacks.
4. Threats are treated seriously and reported to law enforcement.
5. Spam and advertising are not permitted in the comments area.
The clause regarding "hate speech" has been deleted because readers criticized it as being too loosely defined. We agreed.
These guidelines are very general and cannot cover every possible situation. Please don't assume that Pajamas Media management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment. We reserve the right to filter or delete comments or to deny posting privileges entirely at our discretion. If you feel your comment was filtered inappropriately, please email us at story@pajamasmedia.com.
212 Comments
1. chuck:“Harsh Reality” has been all over the place bad mouthing Joe. The world is full of folks with strange needs…
Jan 12, 2009 - 10:55 pm 2. Rose:I thought he was great. Not a polished pro, but refreshing.
1. I was hoping there was an embed code for this.
2. For his critics – I wouldn’t write Joe off as biased necessarily – this is a first report, and having a core belief to report from is not a bad thing. – Subsequent reports could include interviews with REAL Palestinians about what they have to live under as a result of THEIR OWN leaders – and you might find that the truth is they aren’t happy with Hamas, but feel trapped, that they know and like Israelis, things like that that the MSM stopped reporting on when they decided they hate Bush.
There was a report years ago of a summer camp with equal numbers of Palestinian and Israeli kids, they wanted the world to know that they CAN get along, that they are not that different – there was HOPE for the world back then, until the MSM decided to paint a different picture, a picture of hate.
That’s the way I see it – and I guess, in that light, that if joe the Plumber is ‘biased’ in favor of telling a fair story about the israeli side to balance out the hateful MSM message, that’s a good thing.
Telling the story, showing this side, is valid and important.
3. No one in this nation would tolerate more than a few rockets being lobbed into our cities without a full scale retaliation. (I have to say a few because, though it shouldn’t take more than one, we have become a nation that is asleep at the wheel.
Jan 12, 2009 - 11:30 pm 3. Gary Rosen:“You don’t have to watch. You can always watch an old pro – like Geraldo Rivera or Keith Olbermann.”
Priceless, Roger. Of course that is exactly the point of this whole exercise.
Jan 12, 2009 - 11:56 pm 4. David Thomson:“…or think his reporting is too pro-Israel”
This seems to be Ed Morrissey’s concern—and I think it to be utterly ridiculous. The evidence is abundantly clear that Israel is the victim and the Palestinian extremists are the scum of the Earth. Ignoring this well-established fact is intellectually and morally absurd. Would we expect a journalist to be “objectively dispassionate” toward the Nazis during WWII? No, Joe the Plumber merely needs to reveal his bias towards Israel and we can take it from there.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:44 am 5. RiverRat:Roger,
For all the bubbleheads. Chingase! Hiring Joe was brilliant. Of course he biased; mi tambien; tu tambian; Joe tambien.
All writers (and voices) ar biased.
I’ve probably read 10 thousand books in my life, including a couple of yours,and have never encountered an unbiased voice including the authors of the Torah!
Anyone who claims “an objective and dispassionate voice” is a liar, therefore professional American journalists (aka the MSM) are just like the rest of us.
I’ll always support honest voices. Joe’s one.
Millions of more hits be upon you and yours, amigo.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:47 am 6. Pajamas Media » The Gaza War - Over Joe the Plumber:[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:16 am 7. michael david toledo:I met Joe in the airport in Tel Aviv. Let me tell you that Joe the Plumber is the guy many of us have waited for. He speaks his mind, and he’s not afraid to go head to head with s0me of the nastiest reporters in the world. When is he running for congress? He has my vote and every body i know’s vote. A vote for Joe , is a vote for Truth.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:44 am 8. Marc Malone:The left always screams bias when the rare, right-leaning journalist makes an appearance. Suddenly, they want balance. Guess what? The occasional voice from the right is the balancing one.
It’s like the idiots at Voice of America trying to offer a balanced opinion. Dummies. All the other side ever hears is the totalitarian propoganda. Yours is the voice of our side. Your job is not to provide balance in your own reporting. Your job is to balance out the other guy’s voice.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:47 am 9. progressoverpeace:Well, the left is scared that Joe will hit on one simple idea and break open the whole delusional world they have built to describe things in the Middle East, like he did in the campaign. The press people who are trying to denigrate Joe are suffering the same fear, since he did more with his simple questioning of BHO than anyone in the press was able to do, and those sycophants who were trying to obsure the facts surrounding BHO found themselves unable to defend their reality-challenged reports.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:12 am 10. apex:Reporting without being part of the elite media? What’s next, peasants reading the bible, and not even in Latin?
Jan 13, 2009 - 3:31 am 11. Lowfields:I’m not sure what’s scarier… the fact that someone completely ignorant of his own country’s politics should be recruited to comment on the Middle East, or that his presence in Israel is being applauded by people in the name of pusuing the truth!
Progressives aren’t “scared” of Joe the Plumber because of his views, we’re scared because the media has stooped so low as to invite the views of the intellectually limited and historically ignorant on such a delicate, sensitive and politically charged subject as Israel-Palestine.
When someone says the press has a duty to patriotic, you know you’re in the company of an idiot.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:02 am 12. Thadeus:Joe the Plumber, with the help of the media, and some demented liberal government staffers, has proven himself to be ‘The Real Deal’. Whereas our President Elect is still a big ‘?’ So if you’ll forgive me, I’d rather pay attention to a straight talker Joe the plumber, than a nobody who has the ‘audacity’ to sugarcoat and twist almost everything he utters. Doesn’t say very much for the people who are easily charmed by the mere glimpse of his shadow. But I digress.
History, religions, tradition, cultures, homelands and everything else be damn_Israel has the right to take action, by any measure to ensure it’s safety. If it was the other way around, and Israel has been blatantly lobbing missiles into Gaza without being provoked, I would support Hamas
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:06 am 13. JL:defending itself. But alas, this was and always have been the fault of Hamas and other extremist Islamic groups. Beware, hating Jews can have it’s drawback.
I like him best when he’s just being himself and not trying to be a “professional” journalist. There are millions of pro journalists out there. We don’t need more of those. I like especially when he’s asking questions to the “real” journalists and sticking to it, when they try to weasel their way out of answering. Watching them squirm is just a true joy.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:07 am 14. Popcorn:Yeah, let him bloom. He’s okay and I bet he learns fast, too.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:25 am 15. Harsh Reality:I’ve watched some of his videos and I have to admit, he’s not as bad as I’d imagined.
I’ll sit back and watch. I’m still annoyed at his needless lies to Obama, but I’m willing to get past it.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:50 am 16. Kevin in OK:#10: “I’m still annoyed at his needless lies to Obama, but I’m willing to get past it.”
Of course, we have to include the “Liar, Liar, pants on fire!” qualifying comment. Grow up.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:07 am 17. Patrick Poole:Joe was the person willing to ask Barack Obama the hard question – something the “professional” journalists could never bring themselves to do. And now Joe is reporting from Sderot, where no “professional” journalist is daring to go. If his style isn’t quite polished yet, and if he doesn’t think to ask the hard follow-up question yet (something I have never seen Dick Gregory do), I think many of us will still watch while this flower continues to bloom.
PJM/PJTV made a great decision in picking Joe up.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:14 am 18. Evil Otto:I’m still annoyed at his needless lies to Obama
Thou shalt not question The One.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:36 am 19. Sissy Willis:“Let a thousand FOLLOWERS bloom!”?
Sometimes a typo illuminates.
But you’re so right about JTP’s screen presence. It’s a gift, and — together with Joe the Plumber’s authenticity — is winning lots of FOLLOWERS in my own particular Pauline Kael bubble.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:40 am 20. millie lencioni:Who is financing this utter nonsense? Have the republicans run out of decent people, and now have resorted to a Bill Veeck circus like atmosphere. Are they grooming Joe the plumber as the running mate for Sarah Palin in the next presidential race?
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:41 am 21. Cynthia:I think its great that Joe has a still has a public voice. He is a guy whose opinion has not been shaped by being in New York City and Washington, D.C. politics. He is more like one of us than anyone who writes or reads the New York Times. Git er done, Joe.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:59 am 22. Cap'n Eddie Ricketyback:I just tried the video on the preceding post again after checking my connection speed [6736 Kbps or 6.7 Mbps (822 kB/s)] and it still locks up my browser. I am registered with a password but have not paid a fee. If this video requires a paid membership would not a message to that effect be more appropriate than a browser lock?
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:12 am 23. Peter the Sub Guy:3. Gary Rosen wrote:
“You don’t have to watch. You can always watch an old pro – like Geraldo Rivera or Keith Olbermann.”
Priceless, Roger. Of course that is exactly the point of this whole exercise.
Peter adds: That was what I was telling them all day yesterday. Some folks just don’t listen.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:23 am 24. Craig:You can always watch an old pro – like Geraldo Rivera or Keith Olbermann. As I said, “Let a thousand flowers bloom.”
I’ve seen Olbermann- and those thousand that are blooming?
A thousand blooming idiots.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:40 am 25. Tom:He did an O.K. job as far as I can see. PJM made a very good decision to do this.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:51 am 26. Anton:I will be looking for more reports after seeing the first one.
I think that the real problem that the MSM types have is that the IDEA that anyone else can access the information flow is a threat. I veiw it this way; They have for years been the only ones with access to the “information bank” they doled out what type, and how much, of the total information that came to them. Now it seems that anybody with the money and the balls to go into a combat area can provide news.
This is a threat to their carefully constructed narrative. Michael Yon and Michael Totten have been doing this for several years now, but compared to TV their coverage has relatively less exposure. Joe is well-known (in a way that neither of the Michaels are) so he is an instant draw. The MSM feel the need to denigrate him so as to try to dissuade viewers from tuning in. They are afraid that people will like him and Rivera and Olbermann will be history.
Essentially this does to the MSM what the Freedom of Information Act did to secretive government bureaucrats; it give regular people access to what they need to know to make an informed decision. Thus it is a threat to the fourth estate.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:58 am 27. Anton:Or should that be; a threat to the Fifth Column?
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:00 am 28. grampa guy:If you would arrange a PJTV broadcast of a ten-round boxing match between Joe and BOTH Olbermann and Rivera, I think you could resolve any financial worries for the coming decades. Not to mention “letting a thousand cauliflowers bloom.”
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:01 am 29. John B:I was especially impressed when, as the terror rockets were inbound, Joe made sure his camera crew went into the shelter first.
For those who don’t know, that’s the true mark of a real leader. Joe may not be a seasoned war reporter, but he sure as hell has his priorities right. This is a guy I’d want in my corner anytime.
Go get’um, Joe~!
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:05 am 30. Evan:Joe tells it like he sees it- and he doesn’t try to sugar coat it or manufacture it, which most of the MainstreamLeftLibHollywood press tries to do. But then, their brains are strictly from Disney and the Mickey Mouse Club. Disney once had a course at DisneyU called “Dreaming and Doing”- but the Mainstream Press never got past the Dreaming part.
And now Obama is backpeddling hard on all the BS Promises that he made to his mostly unwashed voters. Looks good on Obama. He is not the way, the light, and the truth and is no rocket scientist either- just another schmoo in strictly continental suits and high collared shirts. Although he will gag before he says it, Obama has only one choice, and that is to support Israel to the hilt. So much for all the prattle from Desmond Tutu and all the others of his ilk in Arfica and the Middle East- If Obama does not have the means to reward (enrich?) his own numbskull voters back home, he sure won’t have the money or interest to support layabouts and terrorists in Africa and the Middle East.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:10 am 31. ricpic:Joe The Plumber isn’t qualified to be a reporter but Carolyn Kennedy is qualified to be a senator? I wonder why, NOT.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:31 am 32. ThinkingPerson:Joe’s work reporting from the front is 100% more work than Obama has done on the conflict so far. Not a peep about it. Not a sidewards glance. Not one iota. Pathetic. I wish Obama would concern himself more with the growing threat from the turmoil there than how to dig into our pockets and make the Treasury print faster.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:33 am 33. Dick Stanley:Send Princess Caroline to Israel and Joe the Plumber to the Senate. Yeah, that’ll work.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:49 am 34. Self-hating Boomer:The degree of outrage on display is identical to the degree of outrage displayed over Sarah Palin*. The moonbats and islamists just have their knickers in a twist because somebody’s getting the puck past their duly anointed goalie.
*Trivia: Edward R. Murrow graduated from a land-grant college 8 miles from the land-grant college that Sarah Palin received her journalism degree from. And yet, Murrow is an icon.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:49 am 35. hermie:I recall one ‘reporter’ on CNN stating that Obama was elected because he had to address the economy, not Gaza.
Gee, I guess foreign policy just isn’t a priority except when you bash a Republican.
All those warm cuddly feelings will appear when Obama says his honeyed (although teleprompted) words and he frees all the terrorists in Gitmo.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:53 am 36. Sandra M.:The reason the media doesn’t tell the truth or only half truths is MONEY. If the truth is told the people who hold the purse strings with draw there ads. Personally I find Rivera a dangerous loose canon. They sent him home for giving out locations of our troops. He’s a glory hound. Likes the adrenaline rush. Joe is refreshingly straight forward. And from a religous point he is doing what the bible says to do. To stand by God’s chosen people. No matter how imperfect. As far as perfection goes…the USA’s leaders in government leave a lot to be desired. From what I’ve seen in over 64 years two wars and several other inccidents we need to clean house. SM
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:53 am 37. rocketeer:I’m thinking Palin-Plumber in 2012! I think we have a winner there.
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:22 am 38. Freelance Minion:Seriously, the degree of mock outrage at a common man from here going to Israel to speak to the common man over there about a very difficult situation speaks volumes. The fifth column is shaking in it’s boots that the sixth column is arriving. It used to be that a healthy media kept tabs on government. Now we need a healthy “new media” to keep tabs on the a corrupt “old media”.
Go Joe!!!!!
Did I really hear this guy say reporters shouldn’t be allowed near war zones, just like in World War 2???
Can someone get this guy a book on Ernie Pyle? Oh, I’m sorry, that would involve reading. I’m sure there’s a nice picture book in the youth section of the library.
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:24 am 39. Collins:Hey hey JOe!
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:31 am 40. subreen:What you are waiting for to join the Israel military and fight for Israel freedom?
Where was your father in WWII?
Yes, I have been bashing Joe the unlicensed plumber. First, I never had a problem when he ask tough questions to President-elect Obama and put him on the spot. The only time I had respect for him while I was still debating on who to elect. My problem is that he lied from being a licensed plumber, going to make over 250,000 a year, not paying his taxes, turn his back on McCain after campagin was over,Joe is not his real name,and he a wannabe journalist. I’m sure the list can go on and on and on. I’m not threated by him, I just don’t like liars. I guess I would need to be a conservative republican to appreciate liars.
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:40 am 41. Ann141:40. subreen….. It sure is good you’re not “threated by him”. Could’ve fooled me.
Joe’s not doing anything more than he was the day that Bambi accidentally told the truth in answer to a casual (not “tough”) comment. He’s just asking questions that come to mind. I doubt very much Joe cares about being a “journalist”. He’s just enjoying a ride during which he’s being paid for what he does anyway: thinking a little bit and asking a few questions.
BTW, if we take at face value your statement that you “don’t like liars”, it is really very difficult to believe that you ever seriously debated who to vote for. With such a core of pristine character, you obviously would not even have considered Bambi as POTUS.
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:53 am 42. Pragmatist:So, to cut through the “media bias” JTP goes to Israel and prods a native journalist to give him a sound bite concerning that journalists bias?
I read about JTP mission to Gaza and how he was preparing by watching TV Journalists for style tips. Maybe he should have been preparing by boning up on the history of the region, at least since 1945.
Israel has every right to invade Gaza to prevent Hamas from firing regular rocket sorties into it’s southern borders, this I believe. But do all of you staunchly pro-Israeli commentors have a graps on the illegal formation of the 1948 Jewish State? The rule over Gaza that Israel holds, making a vassal state? What about countless illegal Israeli settlements? There is more subtlety to this complex and violent issue than many people know or care to educate themselves about.
I doubt JTP does done his homework and from what I can tell his “reporting” has done nothing to give us information or to inform himself about the feelings of both Israeli AND Gaza citizens.
JTP, how is the Israeli offensive damaging the reputation of Fatah with hit’s own constituents? What, no answer?
Perhaps JTP should report from a library where he’s been reading books on the history of the region from the destruction of the temple in 70 AD through the Crusades, the post WWI partitioning and then the immigration of European Jews in the late 40s leading to riots and the 1948 war of independence followed by two wars in the 60s and 70s.
JTP may be earnest and upfront but he is uneducated and out of his league.
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:07 am 43. JohnC:Just another perfect Jewish ploy to get Americans in-line and continue to view Palestinians in general, and Hamas in particular as aggressors. Quite the contrary, Israelis have done to the Palestinian people whatever they have wanted to do. How can they flourish while borders are sealed and trade embargos imposed by Israel? I will tell you what, as long as the capital of Israel continues to be Washington D.C., the palestinian people do not stand a chance. Listen to people such as ex president Carter, how can you have peace talks without all parties joining in? Hamas has, is and will continue to be the true voice of Palestinians.
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:09 am 44. Sue:I like Joe! I like his attitude! I love that he is attacked by the deaf, dumb and blind. I hope he stays safe and keeps asking those “questions” the MSM hates to even think about. If the 1000 followers bloomed all over this country and they asked the politicians of every stripe the type of questions no one asks anymore, wouldn’t it be wonderful. And, for all of you lowlifes that constantly add your demeaning comments regarding republicans and conservatives, get a life. You don’t know anything you think you know if you’ve done nothing but read print, watch news all delivered by the biased MSM….your entire insular, hateful lives!!
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:17 am 45. BMoon:Hamas has, is and will continue to be the true voice of Palestinians.(#43, John C.)
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:41 am 46. Charlie (Colorado):As were the Nazis to the Germans? May they both have the same fate then.
I’m not sure what’s scarier… the fact that someone completely ignorant of his own country’s politics should be recruited to comment on the Middle East, or that his presence in Israel is being applauded by people in the name of pusuing the truth!
You know, I’m not sure which of those are scarier, but I’ll tell you what I find scary: that you don’t recognize the central misconception in this sentence: that knowledge of this country’s politics affects, or should affect, Joe’s ability to learn new things in Israel and explain them.
So here’s a thought: back in the old days, when horse-drawn carts were still being used in cities, the teamsters discovered cars in adjacent lanes frightened the horses. So they used a special device that restricted the horses’ ability to see in any direction except straight ahead. Now, horses are built, morphologically, to have a nearly 360 degree view; this is a survival factor for herd herbivores. They need to see what’s coming from any direction. Its only when they’re owned by a teamster that its desirable — for the teamster — to keep them from seeing everything.
These devices are called blinders.
Your objection, finally, comes down to the notion that Joe Wurzelbacher ought to be wearing blinders to match yours.
You might ask yourself why you are wearing blinders. And who your teamster is.
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:46 am 47. Michael Smith:subreen makes the following claims about Joe:
My problem is that he lied from being a licensed plumber, going to make over 250,000 a year, not paying his taxes, turn his back on McCain after campagin was over,Joe is not his real name,and he a wannabe journalist.
With 5 minutes of checking, I discovered the following:
1) Joe didn’t claim to be a licensed plumber — only a plumber; his understanding was the he was working under his employer’s license.
2) Joe didn’t claim that he made $250,000 a year; he said he was considering buying a plumbing company whose income he estimated at $200,000 to $250,000 a year and he wanted to know how Obama’s tax plans would impact that.
3) Joe was unaware of the state of Ohio’s tax lien against him, which the state admitted they’d not told him about. You can rest assured that if he was routinely “not paying his taxes” as you claim, the government would do something about it.
4) “Turned his back on McCain”? You mean because he criticized McCain’s support of the bailout bill? It was McCain who turned his back on the free enterprise system.
5) “Joe is not his real name”? His middle name is Joseph. “Joe” is a universally accepted shortening of that name.
6) “Wannabe journalist”? As near as I can tell, he’s not pretending to be anything other than what he actually is — just an ordinary guy who wants to see things for himself.
In short, there isn’t anything there that justifies calling him “a liar”. Your list of complaints simply shows that you’ve swallowed the main stream media’s narrative without any critical thought on your part at all and now — like a good parrot — you are ready to regurgitate the talking points on cue. Do you not realize that such behavior makes you a “useful idiot”?
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:52 am 48. Judith:Maybe Joe can interview some of the Gush Katif expellees who were forced out of Gaza during the disengagm’t 3 yrs ago. The Gush Katif Israelis still reside in caravans waiting for permanent housing. They actually served as a buffer to Hamas who turned there old homes into launching pads where the rockets are now aimed at Israel. Their story goes to the source of today’s war & the mistake of the Israeli gov’t in their expulsion. Joe could get a perspective on the war that even the Israeli leftist news media refuses to cover. Despite the wrong done to them, the Gush Katif evacuees are fiercly patriotic & their sons serve in the IDF which now finds themselves returning to their old homes. An interview w/ one of these soldiers would be enlightening.
(Related story http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129407 )
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:52 am 49. rvastar:Simple. Stop using open borders as conduits for suicide bombers. The end.
Israel withdrew from Gaza – unilaterilly – in 2006. The poor Palestinians then voted in a Hamas govt, which has spent the intervening time since that withdrawal lobbing THOUSANDS of missiles across the border into Israel. Israel is now responding, as is their human right to do so.
So I agree, Lefty. Hamas is the true voice – and more importantly, the true face – of the Palestinians. And as such, the Palestinians are getting exactly what they deserve.
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:52 am 50. Laura:John C:
That says a lot about a people who elect terrorists as their spokesmen. You are either very naive or a fool. I suspect both.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:01 am 51. Charlie (Colorado):Harsh, you know, I wonder who put your blinders on too, and if you’re even aware of them. Like the thing about Joe’s “lies”. The usual list I hear (it’s in comments above already) that he uses his middle name as his given name; that hile he worked as a plumber for a plumbing contractor, he actually called himself a plumber without being a licensed plumber; that he suggested to Obama that he aspired to buy the firm he worked for sometime in the future; and that he was concerned that Obama’s frankly redistributionist tax policies would make that more difficult.
The first is ludicrous: it is very common, especially for someone whose first name is a family name that might cause confusion, as Joe’s is.
The second is rather silly: we don’t refuse to allow the shovel-drivers on a landscaping crew to call himself a landscaper, even though they aren’t licensed landscaping contractors. The guy who comes to my apartment to fix the toilet is a “plumber” in common parlance, even though he’s a handyman who works for the apartment.
The third and fourth are, at best, unknowable, although I can tell you that it’s not at all uncommon for a contractor with a substantial firm and no one to take it over in his family to pick out a promising, ambitious employee, groom them, and eventually make appropriate arrangements to allow them to take over the business. So, I suppose we can charitably assume it’s ignorance on your part, and on the part of the press.
Less charitably, we might wonder if it’s an essential classism, that causes you to assume that someone who is a plumber’s apprentice now will never be able to aspire to being a business owner.
The essential point, I think, is that you are blinded by something; it leads you to repeat the stories you’ve been told without actually examining them.
So I’ll ask the same question I asked above: who owns you? And what is it they don’t want you to see?
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:05 am 52. Charlie (Colorado):John C, were you aware that Israel is not the only country that borders the Gaza Strip? Or that the other country that borders Gaza, Egypt, is nominally their ally instead of being an adversary which Hamas explicitly, in their charter, pledges to destroy?
I can’t imagine you don’t know this, since you clearly are immensely informed about the Middle East; I have to wonder, then, if you think it’s the Jews in Egypt that prevent them from opening their border?
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:10 am 53. Peter the Sub Guy:40. subreen wrote:
My problem is that he lied from being a licensed plumber, going to make over 250,000 a year
Peter replies (and subreen is perfectly free not to read this if he/she/it does not want to): First, Joe NEVER said he was a licensed plumber, and under Ohio regulations was not required to be. Second, he said if he was able to buy the business he would LIKE to make over $250,000 (and probably used that figure because that was the figure your exaulted leader was using), not that he was absolutely going to make that much.
I would like to make over $100k in my job. Is it likely? Not at present, but who knows, maybe someday.
Am I lying?
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:24 am 54. mike:It is very sad that with all the problems I face today, laid off and about to loose my home and no jobs to find at age 56, and people loosing their lives on both side, you chose to show pictures and videos of some bold headed idiot who should be working at John McCain’s house as his personal toilet plumber at the best. Please get serious, Americans are loosing their jobs and homes and this is our best News Cverage? JOE THE BOLD PLUMBER?? what poor judgment you showed to take the attention off American family lives for a second with this joker looking for self serving fame.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:26 am 55. Peter the Sub Guy:42. Pragmatist wrote:
The rule over Gaza that Israel holds, making a vassal state?
Peter asks: What rule over Gaza? Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Israel withdrew from most of the West Bank around the same time. How is Israel holding Gaza as a vassel state? If the so-called Palestinians put their mind to it, they might actually have a working, functioning government providing services to their citizens instead of a terrorist organization stealing from the citizens of Gaza and buying weapons to attack a sovereign nation with.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:27 am 56. Diane:I was not overly impressed with Joe’s first report – his grammar is iffy, and his agenda is rather barefaced.
But … two things stuck out as unique contributions by Joe:
1. When he started interviewing the Israeli cameraman who was filming him, that was pure genius. No one ever interviews the media crews! We should be doing this regularly, because a) they are on the ground and in a position to report what really went down, and b) their political slant should be aired openly in the spirit of full disclosure.
2. Democrats made hay with Joe’s not being a licensed plumber, but I learned something from his report that only a plumber could teach me: that kassams are made from dug-up sections of urban water pipes! I had no idea. At first blush, this seems like pointless trivia, but actually it’s quite significant. It underscores how Hamas is tearing up Gaza infrastructure to conduct its war on Israel, compounding the misery of the civilian population it claims to be fighting for.
Only consider the significance of 6000 homemade pipe rockets fired into Israel vis-a-vis this bit on information about the crumbling Gaza infrastructure:
“The UN Special Coordinator for MIddle East Peace in Gaza, Hayat Abu-Saleh, issued a report on Monday warning of a mounting humanitarian crisis.
Many basic food items, including food for infants and malnourished children, were no longer available, the report said, and the destruction in Gaza was jeopardizing water, sanitation and medical services. There were increasing risks of epidemic outbreaks resulting from the disruption of vaccinations, uncollected rubbish piling up in the streets and unsafe drinking water.”
Thanks, Joe. I learned something.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:27 am 57. Dougf:“Can someone get this guy a book on Ernie Pyle?”
Even the examples some ‘types’ use to reinforce their insular World View, illustrate not the point they want to make but rather the exact obverse.
If there were any Earnies left in the godforsaken propaganda machine we have as a ‘media’ today, then I’m sure that JTP and everyone else would gladly accept them on the front lines.
But there aren’t. So he doesn’t. And he’s right.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:31 am 58. Bill Perron:I’ve said it before and I’m saying it again, God Bless Joe The Plumber !! Every time I hear a wimpy leftie criticize Joe it is music to my ears, it means he is making an impact and that is very good.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:39 am 59. Annie:I think it’s refreshing to hear the impressions of an amateur journalist in the midst of the Middle East conflict. I don’t understand the uproar. Isn’t the essence of a free press the fact that you can choose what to view? If you don’t like what you hear and see, just flip over to another channel or website or whatever.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:40 am 60. Joe The Plumber wears truth and takes on the media « Sharp Right Turn:[...] Media and JTP’s employer, Roger Simon did a great job in defending Joe in a piece [...]
Jan 13, 2009 - 11:03 am 61. Kevin in OK:I’d like to remind some folks here that this country was built by “unqualified” people.
Take the minutemen, were they licensed soldiers? How about the settlers that moved West–what were their credentials? Jobs and Wozniak, the founders of Apple, didn’t even have college degrees. How dare they!!
Those of us who rally for Joe understand what makes this country great.
Go get ‘em Joe!
Jan 13, 2009 - 11:13 am 62. Pragmatist:Peter the Sub,
Find some nuance to your assertion. Just because Israel does not occupy Gaza does not mean they do not (as they in fact do) exercise control from outside the Gaza borders. Even though Egypt controls one border (onto the vast Sinai Desert) Israel controls Gazas access to trade, jobs, arrable land and water. Gaza does not have an airport or modern port facilities. The only jobs for Gaza dwellers are in Israel.
It is not simply a matter of whether or not Israel occupies the territory.
As Americans, we have loads of information we can access that is not controlled by the MSM. Ask yourself, why would an Muslim Palestinian who is not a radical, who is just looking for the opportunity to make a living for himself and his family, choose Hamas over Fatah? How can Israel help them want to choose Fatah? It’s hard, maybe impossible.
When JTP gives us some interviews from Gaza dwellers that can give us an understanding of what it means to live in Gaza, then he will have given us something new, something “objective”.
Until then, it is a publicity stunt.
When he comes back and says, “There is way more going on over there than I ever knew back here in the US.” Then I will give him credit for contributing.
Jan 13, 2009 - 11:39 am 63. subreen:Peter the Sub Guy
Jan 13, 2009 - 11:54 am 64. Peter the Sub Guy:Like I said, I did respect Joe when he did ask questions reflecting how President-elect Obama is going to run things. I’m just diappointed that Joe was very misleading. In ways, you can agrue and say he is not a liar (I did see your point, but he wasn’t very truthful either. I do watch mainstream media, but I do also like to see other views such as this web site. I am really just trying to understand why all this hatred for people who have a different perspective of views that are differ from yours. Relax! We’re not bad people.
62. Pragmatist wrote:
Peter responds: Let’s take this apart step by step. First I will assume you have never traveled to the middle east. Please correct me if I am wrong.
“Just because Israel does not occupy Gaza does not mean they do not (as they in fact do) exercise control from outside the Gaza borders. Even though Egypt controls one border (onto the vast Sinai Desert)…”
Your comment leads me to believe you think the Sinai is nothing but sand and dirt. Far from the truth, as some of Egypt’s most exclusive resort communities and farming communities are located in the Sinai.
“…Israel controls Gazas access to trade, jobs, arrable land and water.”
Once again, a narrow view. If Egypt chose to, the citizens of Gaza could easily trade across the border with their ‘Arab brethren.’ Not to mention there would be a lot more jobs in Gaza if Hamas chose to build the territory rather than tear it apart. Things like the sewage system being torn apart to make rockets out of to attack Israel. And how can you say Gaza has no water access, as more than a third of its border is along the Med, a perfect place for trade if given the proper port facilities, another thing the Gazans could build instaed of tearing apart.
“Gaza does not have an airport…”
It used to, an international airport in service when the territory was under Israeli control. Any guesses when it was ‘torn apart’?
“…or modern port facilities. The only jobs for Gaza dwellers are in Israel.”
Again, a narrow view. As mentioned above, the Gazans would have everything they need to be another Hong Kong or Singapore if they only put as much effort into work and building their territory as they did launching weapons against a sovereign nation.
Please, refute these items, with objective evidence, if you can.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:03 pm 65. Peter the Sub Guy:63. subreen wrote:
I am really just trying to understand why all this hatred for people who have a different perspective of views that are differ from yours. Relax! We’re not bad people.
Peter replies: I agree. I wish you and many others on this thread would do the same.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:05 pm 66. RodBlago:If Obama can be President, Joe can certainly be a “reporter”.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:13 pm 67. Joe Wurtzelbacher Does The Press « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier:[...] Pajamas Media scored a marketing coup by hiring Joe. They simultaneously get war reporting and the added press of being hated by the press. It’s a win-win! [...]
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:19 pm 68. tim maguire:Throughout, I’ve completely failed to understand the bruhaha. If he does well, fantastic. And kudos to you for giving him the chance. If he does poorly, he’ll fade from our screens. A nice effort that didn’t pan out.
Time is the only valid judge of his work.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:21 pm 69. Steelflower:JTP pretending to be a reporter is a reminder of how senseless the whole McCain campaign was. Just as he was not a licensed plumber but lied and said he was and a lot of the American people just swallowed it up and now this catastrophe. Joe the Liar is now once again in over his head. There are plenty of journalist who would welcome the opportunity of covering the stories that this Joe person is getting paid to do. Also Joe needs to learn as a reporter he needs to report on the story and not make a story. Why the hell was he questioning the cameramen and reporters. This is the first and the last comment I will waste my time writing about this guy. And it is just so sad that somebody somewhere is actually financing this whole fiasco. He should bring his inexperienced butt back on American soil before he and his crew are blown to bits.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:22 pm 70. Instapundit » Blog Archive » JOE THE PLUMBER meets Chairman Mao in Gaza….:[...] JOE THE PLUMBER meets Chairman Mao in Gaza. [...]
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:22 pm 71. Marie Claude:“And that’s a good thing. In my Maoist youth, we used to say “Let a thousand flowers bloom!” Of course, the Chairman later backed away from this pronouncement, but I don’t and I doubt you do either. Many voices are good because the truth is often hard to find. Joe Wurtzelbacher is one of those voices.”
well I could say I had the same youth, as far as hearing the “red book” mottos from my elders co-high-school fellows, that were of course of “high educated” back-grounds, while they also embraced the Gandhi and Rabinadrath Tagore mottos, Hmmm, I don’t think, though, that they were ready to accept that the villans could access to their level of high understandings of policies and of life meanings ; some of them had a sad end with drugs addictions, the others made their ways in the medias and or the “educated sections”…
to make this statment, that they were the reality show people of the “power-flowers” eras, now we have the new version : the real common villans have become fashionable, according to the painter Andy Warhol, who said that everyone has the right to his “15 mn of fame” ; so Joe is the illustration of what was predicted in our world of illusions, does he know that he is a tool ? that he’ll be thrown out after his prestation ?
The thing is that “journalism” as we used to accept the term and supposed deontology is a “dead” profession ; to understand the actualities you have to become polyglot, poly-professional, poly-words-crosser… and “rational” to sort out the substantific truth among the cacaphonic truths that are launched in our global world
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:36 pm 72. Jabba the Tutt:Joe’s out there with people you normally don’t hear from. He’s out there in the streets, talking to the ordinary people.
What do the ‘old pros’ do? They’re standing on hotel balconies, reading press releases from ‘leaders’. They’re out there reporting for their pals, the elites with their moral equivalence trying to prove they’re smarter than everyone else.
I can’t wait for Joe’s next report. I keep on clicking on PJTV to see, if his new report is posted.
And I’d like to know, Israelis get CNN and Fox News, have they responded to any MSM reporter, like they’ve responded to Joe the Plumber? The ‘old pros’ are jealous. No one appreciates their reporting, because they know, deep down, that their reporting is not about them, it’s not for them, it’s about and for the reporter and their pals. People sense that and resent it.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:36 pm 73. Pat J:Joe says journalists should not be allowed to cover wars. Um, what’s he doing again? Oh. Covering a war. What a moron.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:39 pm 74. JH Spyker:Joe’s attempt to tar an Israeli reporter as anti-Israeli was pretty goddamn embarrassing.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:40 pm 75. Sue the Jew:I am Jewish and I am living in Israel and so so proud. I am so happy that someone has finally come along to acknowledge the truth behined the Palestinians and their supporters. Never heard of you before Jo – but you are great. And to all you negative thinkers – if he was wearing a suit and tie and made funny noises as he reported – would you still comment on him.
Go Joe – We are all behined you out here.
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:45 pm 76. Flighterdoc:Harvard? It’s better than Al Gore got in Divinity School (which he entered so as to get an early-out from his duty in Vietnam).
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:49 pm 77. rvastar:Well stated, Peter.
Smug leftists like subreen love to come into these threads, hurling insults (”…I just don’t like liars. I guess I would need to be a conservative republican to appreciate liars”), so confident in the obvious “truths” of their indoctrinated delusions. Then, when they run up against someone like you, who is obviously more informed on the issue at hand, they quickly resort to using one of the boilerplate Leftist obfuscations: in this instance, subreen went with the “Hey man, I’m just trying to spice up the conversation! Relax!” dodge.
Here are a few others I’m sure you see regularly:
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:50 pm 78. Brian G.:Joe the Plumber simply isn’t qualified to report from Israel, Gaza, Iraq, or anywhere else. He does not have the training or experience to understand what exactly a journalist needs to be reporting and how. For example, where are the “blame Bush” or “blame Republicans” angles? I have not seen his reporting unclude un unbiased look at how the policies of the Bush administration and his fealty to the Jewish lobby and neocons are to blame for Israel’s policy of killing innocent Gazans and freedom fighters who merely want self-determination by having their own state. And, where is the fair and balanced reporting on how Iraq was better under Saddam?
This guy needs to understand that there are narratives to be adhered to. Until then, he cannot be described as a journalist in any sense.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:00 pm 79. Daily Pundit » Tit for Nitwit:[...] Simon responds. Submit to Stumbled Upon! -Bill Quick comment on this [...]
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:01 pm 80. Pragmatist:Peter the Sub,
All valid points for argument. You accuse me repeatedly of having narrow view, I suppose I , in turn, must do the same.
First, thanks for pre-emptively rejecting any sources I can come up with by suggesting I can’t find any that are “objective”l; Objectivity being a concept worthy of discussion in my Master’s History seminars.
No, I haven’t traveled there, have you? Perhaps you can expand this point.
My point about JTP is that even though I haven’t traveled there, I do my best to find sources to fully inform my opinion to compensate for my lack of first hand experience. My argument is that the jury is still out on whether JTP will fulfill his stated goal of getting to the bottom of things in ways he claims the MSM refuses to do.
As far as objective sources, how about OXFAM?
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/downloads/oxfam_gaza_lowres.pdf
95% of Gaza industry collapsed when Israel began their current embargo. Yes, their embargo was the result of Hamas seizing de facto control of the area. According to Art 8 of their pullout agreement with Egypt in 2005. Israel was responsible or electricty, sewage, water and other services which they stopped providing when Hamas took control. Hamas tore up the sewage and the airport because there was now power to run those things. Of course, they tore them up to launch attacks at Israel.
How is any government supposed to turn ports suitable for local fishing vessels only into exceptional natural deep water ports like Singapore and HK? Ports that took 100+ years to reach their current standards. Truly, we have so far been civil but this is a suggestion that is not based in any reality.
Yes, Hamas is robbing the Gazans of their future. I’m actually in agreement. But Israel is not helping. (As stated, I support Israel’s right to invade to stop rocket attacks)
Oh yeah, as far as Egypt goes; their resorts appear to be mostly in the Gulf of Aqaba, roughly some 200 miles away from Gaza at the shortest distance. Is there enough industry within a sane commuting distance for the 24,000 workers who used to work in Israel just 2 years ago and have now been barred from commuting to work?
Hamas is a horrible organization and their seizure of Gaza is nothing to be pleased about. I do think Israel’s response is becoming disproportionate and increases the chances of no good coming from this.
Back to the point of this article we are commenting on: JTP. I agree with tim maguire. The jury is still out on JTP’s performance. But so far it isn’t great. Please refer back to his attempt to get a sound bite from an Israeli journalist. Isn’t the “sound-bite” journalism what we would all like to see go away? It’s good the guy says what he feels, kudos. More people should feel they can be honest, but with honesty comes the harsh light of criticism. If your views are uninformed, you run the risk of being challenged and ultimately proven wrong in your assessments. Especially if you rely on knee-jerk reactions and “conventional wisdom.” JTPs frank demeanor doesn’t make him an informed commentator on this issue. If he doesn’t inform himself or us – than it was a failed experiment.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:02 pm 81. Peter the Sub Guy:73. Pat J wrote:
Joe says journalists should not be allowed to cover wars. Um, what’s he doing again? Oh. Covering a war. What a moron.
Peter writes: Or Joe is admitting he is not a ‘professional’ journalist, and non-professional journalists are what we need in this day and age.
What a moron.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:04 pm 82. Peter the Sub Guy:79. Pragmatist:
95% of Gaza industry collapsed when Israel began their current embargo.
Peter writes: Prag, has it NEVER occurred to you that the reason Israel began the embargo, the reason 95% of Gaza industy collapsed, is because the HAMAS-LED terrorists started tearing everything apart the moment Israel left the territory and started using what they ’salvaged’ as weapons against Israel? Hard to maintain factories and businesses when you’re tearing the buildings apart to use the materials to build rockets, bombs and explosives, isn’t it?
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:09 pm 83. A. N. Pierson:Pragmataist, with all due respect, you are rather naive to accept Oxfam as an objective source. They are an NGO. Like many of their ilk, their primary interest is their own survival, not the truth. One simple truth here is the issue of Gazan employment. Had they refrained from rocketing Israel, the doors would have been wide open to work there. Anyone with an IQ in triple digits should know that.
Unlike several on here, I have journeyed to the ME on business numerous times, including to Israel four or five times. Most of Mr. Wurzelbacher’s observations seem substantially correct to me. Even if not particularly deep, they are at least as worthwhile as the boilerplate heard on the networks, and with a note of authenticity.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:09 pm 84. Peter the Sub Guy:Prag, maybe this will come as a surprise to you, but read it and learn!
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5430612/Bill-Gates-Behind-Gaza-Greenhouse.html
Perfectly working, profitable greenhouses that could have supplied food to the citizens of Gaza or even allowed export to other countries and the so-called citizens DESTROYED them the minute Israel left!
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:12 pm 85. spike:subreen:
—————–
“I just don’t like liars. I guess I would need to be a conservative republican to appreciate liars”
…how is it that you could be a loyal follower of the obamessiah (pbuh) and NOT like liars?
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:17 pm 86. Mike K:When someone says the press has a duty to patriotic, you know you’re in the company of an idiot.
Beautifully put. I wonder what Ernie Pyle would say if he could come back and meet you and others like you.
OXFAM is definitely not unbiased as their web site demonstrates
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:27 pm 87. DAISNAID:My mommy taught me to avoid trying to out stink skunks…trolls are todays skunks…don’t waste your time with them, just ignore their rants and they will leave the area, just as skunks will do if not aggravated (told the truth)…
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:29 pm 88. SpaceCat:Silly wingnuts. This whole “controversy” is only eliminating whatever shred of credibility you had left. Expect more humiliating electoral defeats in the years to come if you keep up this anti-intellectualism. Most Americans, despite what you think, are not complete morons. So, more JTPs and Sarah Palins PLEEEZE!
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:35 pm 89. Cindy Sue Causey:Many voices are good because the truth is often hard to find.
Each Voice holds its piece of the Truth built on each Lifetime’s sum worth of experience, environment, Choices, et al(l)..
[I think he's improving.-ed. Me too.]
Heck, far, Rome wasn’t built in a day (so these Fingertips have heard)..
As to the hate spewed directly towards him…..
:sigh:
Perhaps based on Fear that he dareth be so bold as to continue to openly contribute his own tasty morsel towards aforementioned Truth…..
In spite of the recent organized effort by many to consciously and maliciously [attempt to] destroy his very Life and Livelihood.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:37 pm 90. SpaceCat:“*Trivia: Edward R. Murrow graduated from a land-grant college 8 miles from the land-grant college that Sarah Palin received her journalism degree from. And yet, Murrow is an icon.”
Which just goes to show, the so-called “elites” you GOPers rail against so vehemently reward talent, no matter where it comes from. Palin has none and was way out of her depth, so she was appropriately ridiculed. It has nothing to do with “class.”
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:38 pm 91. subreen:to rvastar,
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:44 pm 92. njcommuter:Obviously, you can’t stand people with different views. It shows and it’s okay, you can’t help your self. I can acknowledge other views (thats why I am here) because I have travled to the Middle East and listened to both Arabs and Israelis perspective views. I watched many news sources on television and on the internet. I’d never said I’m only hear to spice up the conversation. My problem with this whole thing about Joe reporting is that its riduclious, and I am disagreeing with people who believe it’s okay to wake up one morning and decide to be a journalist without required education to become one. Sure, Joe has an opinion, so he should do like the rest of us doing, blog in (lol). I just hope Joe does not decide one day he wants to become a doctor without going to medical school. My guess, you would support him if chooses to do so.
Had WW II Germany not collapsed when it did, there would have been massive starvation: most of the potato crop that was supposed to feed the population had been turned into alcohol to fuel the new jet fighters. Had WW II Japan not surrendered when it did, the deaths from starvation might have exceeded the deaths in battle, and many of the children who survived might have been stunted or crippled for life. (This actually happened in Europe after WW I.)
But Hamas will not surrender, nor will they readily collapse. They are not a nation-state; they are a political party that feels no responsibility towards their people. Any responsibility they feel is towards their cause. Just as Hitler wasted resources that could have gone towards winning the war on his goal of killing Jews, so Hamas prefers to destroy their own people (and milk that destruction by gaining sympathy from folks who can’t place blame properly) in order to destroy Jews.
If Judaism truly were evil, this would be noble. But Jews have given to the world far in excess of their numbers and survived trials that would have destroyed–that have destroyed–every other people that suffered them. We are left with a choice: either Judaism is evil, or the murderous and genocidal hatred of Jews is evil. There is no middle ground.
The accusations against the Jews are contradictory: they are degenerate descendants apes and pigs, but also so skilled they can create world-governing cabals. The accusations also fail when they are tested: “Selfish,” “money-grubbing,” “genocidal” Jews around the world contributed money to give them greenhouses. The gates of Gaza were not blocked until suicide bombers began using them regularly. And, most tellingly, the Gazans still live to make their accusations.
So the Jews are not the crawling scaly evil that they are accused of being; the evil must lie in those who are trying to destroy them.
And “evil” is now considered a four-letter word.
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:48 pm 93. Pragmatist:Peter,
Thank you for addressing all my many points one by one. It has occurred to me that Hamas and their followers have been poison to Gaza and it’s residents. Your assertion that their tore apart their infrastructure made me critical of some information I had read. So I found more, only part of which is offered to you in the OXFAM report. Take some time to read it.
It is a shame that the people of Gaza choose, for whatever reason to elect Hamas. I am not surprised that Hamas took to actively fighting Fatah or destroying things left behind by Israel. It’s deplorable and Hamas needs to be destroyed.
However, your evidence about greenhouses and suggestion of other acts of destruction processed with thanks; I do NOT believe that the Gazans destroyed 95% of their own industries. For example, the airport you assert was destroyed by Hamas was actually destroyed by Israel in 2001. Regardless, Israel maintains control of Gaza airspace under it’s agreement with Egypt in 2005.
To beat a dead horse, does the extend of our back and forth lead you to believe that this conflict and it’s 60 year history are easy to fully grasp and that plain-spoken JTP has done his best to wrap his intellect around it?
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:50 pm 94. rvastar:That’s rich, coming from an “intellectual” such as yourself…whose two posts consists of nothing but ad hominem, red herrings, and straw man arguments.
Tell us, spacecat…you do understand that so-called “arguments” that are irrelevant to the point at hand and contain no substantive facts are a bad thing, right?
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:50 pm 95. comatus:Joe’s from Toledo. Not a lot of people from Toledo are on the national stage. There’s Katie Holmes, and there’s PJ O’Rourke.
If we sent the three of them…would that be, like, fair & balanced?
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:51 pm 96. mohammed:Joe who?
Jan 13, 2009 - 1:52 pm 97. Peter the Sub Guy:95. comatus:
Peter writes: Thank you, comatus. Your post made me laugh.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:02 pm 98. Pragmatist:Peter,
For your reading, an article that suggests that Gazans attempted to repair and operate the very same greenhouses but their success was hampered by lack of access to water and trade options by the Israelis.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/31/news/greenhouse.php
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:03 pm 99. Evil Pundit:SpaceCat: Sarah Palin has been rewarded for her talents by becoming the most popular governor of any state in the US. And she has a good chance at becoming the next President.
So far, she’s doing better than Ed Murrow did.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:13 pm 100. Peter the Sub Guy:Prag,
“But problems with security, obstacles to the free passage of goods through Israel and the limited water supply – along with pervasive corruption in the Palestinian Authority – threaten the success of the greenhouse project and the entire Gaza economy.”
If I were a country that was being constantly attacked by a neigboring territory, I would close my border to them too. But note that one of the biggest reasons for the failure of the greenhouses, even in your article, is the Palestinian’s own government!
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:15 pm 101. rvastar:Not at all. I just can’t stand ignorant, morally clueless Leftist hacks like you.
I won’t waste my time with the rest of your post, as it only consists of more of your futile efforts at squirming away from the ignorance you revealed initially.
Here’s an idea: why don’t you just return to the Middle East and listen to more of the Arabs “perspective” on things. That way, you can help us all to acquire a more “nuanced” view on the abhorrent, virulent anti-Semitism they inculcate in their children.
Or maybe you can provide us all with a better understanding of organizations like Hamas, whose recently dispatched leader was so committed to working towards peace with Israel that he sent one of his own son’s off to be a suicide bomber.
Or maybe you can help us develop the proper cultural sensitivity to bridge the gap between us and people who believe that the proper response to accusations of a woman talking to a male non-relative is throwing acid in her face…or burying her up to her neck and hurling chunks of concrete at her head…or whipping her to death with wooden lashes…or to just keep it simple, having her throat cut by her father or brother.
As I’ve stated before, the Israelis aren’t the real targets of those Hamas or Hizbollah rockets…the real targets are morally confused people like you. And no matter how good or bad a job JTP does as a journalist, it would literally be impossible for him to be as wrong, inaccurate, or ridiculous as you and your ilk.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:24 pm 102. Victor Erimita:Joe elicits such rage and contempt from the Regressives because (1) he is an ordinary American who dares question the groupthink of the elites, (2) he doesn’t speak with the smirking, knowing condescension of the Couric/Matthews/Stewart/Fey/Maher entertainment complex Cool Kids, (3) he doesn’t buy the Regressive narrative without question, and (4) people identify with his persona, which is not the slick media mask the Regressives are so enamored with. In that sense he is very much like Sarah Palin, whom they also loath for mostly the same reasons. That results in the Regressive apoplexy and the passion to destroy Joe and Sarah—-don’t these people know only WE know what’s right and that only we should get to speak? After all, we’re professionals!
Of course the symbolism of JTP, an everyman who dares to question the MSM juggernaut and is viciously attacked for it, is a big reason why Pajamas TV picked him to go. Pajamas is all about an alternative to the monolithic MSM, and Joe is a thumb in their eye. And it has worked wonderfully. He is but one among hundreds of “reporters” over there, but the only one who has generated so much attention and rage over daring to even go over there and tell us what he sees. The Regressives simply cannot stand the idea that anyone would challenge the exclusivity of their “right” to tell us what reality we are to believe. Once again, the “reality-based” community is terrified and outraged that some reality might actually get seen by someone.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:27 pm 103. California Dreamer:I’m intrigued by the possibility that the Israelis are being aided by Fatah (in targeting their precision weaponry) and by Egypt (as a buffer against the Muslim Brotherhood-Hamas forces). The Wall Street Journal has been reporting on both possiblities and I’m sure more information will slowly come into the open.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:29 pm 104. SLE:Roger,
Not to be a buzzkill, but the correct phrase from Chairman Mao is “Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend.” I wasn’t an actual Maoist, but I remember the Hundred Flowers movement.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:30 pm 105. Former Writer:I find this entire enterprise refreshing beyond all belief. I have my degree in Journalism from a fancy-pants Eastern private school. It means nothing. Nothing at all. In all my studies the only thing I learned was how to write better in the “journalistic style”, which is convention that has pretty much been abandoned over the last few years. In my current writings, I don’t use it at all. What’s even funnier is that, for the most part, anything not written by a staffer comes from an “untrained” freelancer with expertise on whatever subject is at issue in the article. Do any of Joe’s critics realize this? It takes 0 qualification, aside from the ability to write decently, to get published? In terms of “hard-hitting” investigative journalism, not only is nothing taught about that in J-school, nothing much CAN be taught about that. The ability to think on your feet and investigate is a nearly innate ability. Not, of course, that this happens very often in the MSM anymore anyway. The best you’ll see in today’s newspapers is a writer doing what is common sense: asking questions of the parties involved, looking at motivations, following the money, etc. It, frankly, isn’t brain surgery. Plumbing is much more difficult.
Keep up the good work, Joe, and good luck. It may work out, it may not, but you’ve obviously struck a chord with people.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:30 pm 106. Victor Erimita:Gee, Subreen, Joe isn’t trained in journalism, so his going there to report is ridiculous. But you cite as one of your credentials that you have traveled to the Middle East and heard the perspectives of both Jews and Arabs. Isn’t that what Joe is doing? You may not be claiming to be a journalist, but neither is Joe. He’s just telling us what he sees. Like you are telling us what you’ve heard. Why is it ridiculous for Joe, but fine for you?
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:32 pm 107. Pragmatist:Peter,
So we both agree that “regular” Gazans efforts at normal life are undermined by both Israel and Hamas?
Belabored point, will we see this balanced assessment from the reporting of JTP?
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:44 pm 108. JH Spyker:For serious: Are you guys really not embarrassed by Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher? I mean, I realize that at this point it’s probably too late to turn back — you dance with the one that brung ya, after all — but it can’t possibly escape your notice that the fellow is borderline retarded, right?
Hey look, it’s nice that PJs is getting lots of traffic. It was obviously a publicity stunt — Joe, after all, has no discernible skills, save for backing the wrong candidate — and I suppose a good one. But long-term, it’s best not to complain when PJs isn’t taken seriously as a media org, either old or new.
Jan 13, 2009 - 2:51 pm 109. ThinkingPerson:Spacecat….If Palin was out of her “league” then Caroline Kennedy should be picking up my trash.
Jan 13, 2009 - 3:07 pm 110. ThinkingPerson:JH Spyker…Okay, we’ll let you in on a little secret. Pajamas Media used poor ole Joe to reel in liberal Obama zombies so those of us who regularly read Pajamas can enjoy pointing out their stupidity and shortcomings as human beings. Pssst….don’t tell them though or they’ll quit coming around and showing how ignorant they really are. Where’s the fun in that?
Jan 13, 2009 - 3:25 pm 111. paul_unalaska:JH Spyker, for *hits * giggles, please, enlighten me with a reputable ‘Media organization.’
As for the borderline *etarded comment (disgusting in of itself), did you see the sheeple casting their vote for Obama in November? Perhaps you should examine their brain waves. What’s that? Oh, you’re not a doctor. But…
Jan 13, 2009 - 3:46 pm 112. LarryD:Thomas Sowell on the difference between “neutral” and “objective”.
Jan 13, 2009 - 3:50 pm 113. Michael B:Mealy Mouthed Media
With Joe in Israel, I’m predicting the end of the world within a week, two weeks tops. After all, journalism in its present state being the sine qua non of the professional class, any other likelihood seems incomprehensible.
Jan 13, 2009 - 3:54 pm 114. Big Ben:Way to go, Joe!
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:09 pm 115. steveaz:MSNBC’s “licensed” reporter just “reported” that Obama’s administration will exercise “more oversight” over the $350 billion in T.A.R.P. funds he has just requested from Bush, than Bush has.
A licensed “reporter” just reported on events in the future tense, in front of a gullible, captive audience.
It appears that, along with propagandizing political reportage, predicting the future is taught in Journalism schools as part of journalists’ licensing curriculum. If Joe’s lack of J-cred’s prevents him from gazing into a crystal ball, then I say, he’s better off not having them.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:46 pm 116. Jaz:This is symptomatic of what is wrong with a section of US society. It is the rampant anti-intellectualism. The idea that people of learning, of intelligence, are somehow untrustworthy.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:47 pm 117. Harsh Reality:He is a plumber – and may be a very good one. But as a reporter he is utterly useless. There is no insight, no background, no explanation, no attempt at understanding the story. He is a bull in a china shop.
He and Sarah Palin are spiritual soul mates. Both represent the triumph of ignorance of intelligence, of opinion over fact, of bigotry over tollerance.
Kevin, at least I’m big enough to admit when I might be mistaken. I am not, however, mistaken about the lies told by Joe to Obama (no, not about his name or license, I have listed his actual, demonstratable lies ad nauseum in the other posts on this topic). Do you always completely overlook people who lie to you? I don’t think so – you’re being selectively generous to Joe because you’re a partisan sheep.
You are also a petty wanker who just NEEDED to get in a last-minute kick in the balls when I was being conciliatory. That makes you beneath contempt.
Charlie, you managed to ramble on about things that I didn’t say Joe lied about. I have very carefully listed the three on-camera lies that Joe told when he was first exposed to the media. None of them had anything to do with the nonsense you spurt.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:47 pm 118. Terrye:Why attack Joe? If you don’t want to watch him, don’t.
Ease up people. You do not have to marry the guy. In fact I think he was probably wrong on McCain and the bail out. When I saw banks all over the world in trouble and the economies from Iceland to Spain to China to the UK reacting I thought it was probably a good idea to put some liquidity in the financial markets just to keep things from complete collapse. I grew up in Oklahoma hearing horror stories of the Great Depression.
But if Joe disagrees, what business is that of mine? That has nothing to do with him going to Israel to talk about what he sees there. sheesh.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:51 pm 119. Terrye:harsh:
You are getting weird. This man did not lie, and you are over the top. You really are. Did he steal your woman or something?
I mean really, are we going to discuss the whole licensed thing? I was a farmer for years. I had a Grade A Dairy Permit, did that make me a licensed farmer? Because when asked, I just responded…I am a farmer. This whole thing is just absurd and so are you.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:54 pm 120. Terrye:By the way, Harsh, what is your name? Maybe some folks working the state government where you live would like to put a lot of personal information about you out there in the media and they can not do that if you continue to hide your true identity. A guy has a right to face his accuser, if you are going to call Joe a liar…why not crawl out from under your rock and do it like a man. Tell us your name.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:57 pm 121. DWHarper:Are you kidding me? Mr. Simon you hired an illiterate to do journalism and he has proven to be just that in his reports. Plus, he doesn’t have a clue about what journalism is and he thinks commentators are journalists. Your site is obviously a joke and now you have confirmed it by hiring this idiot.
Jan 13, 2009 - 4:59 pm 122. Godzilla:Jaz, since the context is journalism, who would be your fitting model for a learned, intelligent, and trustworthy source? Wolf Blitzer? Sorry, but that confused, dazed look that he wears like a second skin is a little offputting. Mizz Brown? I’d trust her recommendation on hair and skin products, but that’s about it. Smirking Shepard Smith? Shouting Bill O’Reilly? I could go on…
As another commenter has said, that piece by Joe was informative if not polished. Now we know that the Gazans are ripping up their infrastructure to make the bombs. Not sure how that enriches our lives any, but it should us pause to wonder if giving them aid to build a new sewer systmem is really a good thing.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:10 pm 123. Harsh Reality:Terrye, are you dishonest? Or merely a simpleton? Here is what I wrote:
“I am not, however, mistaken about the lies told by Joe to Obama (no, not about his name or license, I have listed his actual, demonstratable lies ad nauseum in the other posts on this topic). Do you always completely overlook people who lie to you? I don’t think so – you’re being selectively generous to Joe because you’re a partisan sheep.
Yet you bring up the license issue, AGAIN, when I have already said that his lying wasn’t about being licensed.
Because you have been a complete ASS when I was making PLAIN that I was going to give Joe a chance, you have now FORCED me to reprint his lies. Good job. You want the argument to keep going? You got it:
1) “I’m thinking about buying my boss’s plumbing business.” [Told to Obama upon meeting him for the first time].
Joe made less than 40k last year, and owed taxes. He wasn’t buying any damn business and he knew it.
2) “The business makes 250k a year and your taxes will hurt me, won’t they?” [The very next sentence out of his mouth to Obama].
This is mens rea and actus reus (guilty mind, guilty action) on public display, proving that Joe is a dishonest person. Dummy Joe chose the figure of 250k because at that time, it was the amount chosen by Obama as the lower threshold for proposed tax increases. The company Joe worked for had a turnover of a little over 100k last year, something that Joe was fully aware of. This is CLEARLY a lie chosen to suit his purposes.
3) “I’m not registered under Joe Wurzelbacher, it’s under Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher.” [When asked by a reporter the next day why he isn’t registered under the name Joe Wurzelbacher].
Joe isn’t registered under either name. He just assumed that the reporter wouldn’t be able to check.
There you go. Joe… lying. Three times, on camera, in 24 hours.
If you now tell me that that ISN’T grounds to suspect someone’s credibility a journalist, you will be surrendering your own credibility.
Now – to repeat – I am willing to sit back and watch, see how Joe does. That is why I wrote my original post above, because unlike 90% of the blinkered morons here, I am able to openly admit when I MIGHT be mistaken.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:22 pm 124. MimiD:I really enjoy the reports by Joe. He speaks the truth and has alot of courage for doing so.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:26 pm 125. Bill Perron:We need more reporters like him. The regular media are just puppets for the liberal causes such as Hamas.
HARSH REALITY, Here is some reality, you keep posting the same information over and over again, why? Perhaps you are in the first stages of a mental disorder, another indication of that mental disorder is that you take this JOE THE PLUMBER stuff way to serious. Get over it, tell us about all the lies Hillary and Bill told, they are the really juicy lies. GOD BLESS JOE THE PLUMBER say it three times, it feels good, really it does, c’mon, try it you’ll like it, I promise.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:41 pm 126. where'smycheck?:And to think this all started over a relatively simple question that BHO butchered down to the bone. Good for you, Joe! I hope it makes you a millionaire. Beware though, as the “tax man” cometh.
Jan 13, 2009 - 5:59 pm 127. Rachel:If Sean Penn can be a foreign correspondent, why not this guy?
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:03 pm 128. Harsh Reality:???
Bill, I’m not a liberal. I know the Clintons lie every time they take a breath.
But that doesn’t effect – in any way – the fact that Joe told some whoppers when he stood nothing to gain from them. At least the Clintons only lied when they could profit from it.
Lies with no seeming point to them worry me more.
Oh, and I keep writing his lies up because people keep making the IDIOTIC statement that his lies were ‘only’ about his license. I like to make clear exactly what happened, and not allow people to sidetrack or distract from the reality.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:07 pm 129. Harsh Reality:Where’smycheck, actually, that’s your Obama-Derangement-Syndrome talking.
He took time out to slowly and deliberately answer Joe’s question. He didn’t fumble or make any stunning concessions. People who claim forced him to do that are disconnected from reality.
Watch the video. Obama explains his tax plans. That’s it.
Joe, on the other hand, misrepresented himself. In that particular interaction, Obama actually coems off as the better man.
Please try to place your foaming-at-the-mouth hatred to one side. The man will soon be president – your president. We’re in some tough times, give him a chance before you condemn him.
You’re supposed to be better than the liberals who behaved this way toward Bush, right?
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:12 pm 130. Margie Nelsen:REPLY LOWFIELDS: WHEN YOU SAY THE PROGRESSIVES WHAT ARE YOU CALLING THE REST OF US THAT ARE NORMAL? YOU DON’T NEED 10 DEGREE’S TO HOLD A MICROPHONE AND TELL THE WORLD THE TRUTH, JUST TWO EYES AND AN HONEST HEART. WE,(THE NON -PROGRESSIVES) LOVE JOE THE PLUMBER AND SARAH PALIN WHO ARE BOTH FRIENDS OF ISRAEL. PALIN 2012.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:16 pm 131. Charlie:It is obvious why there is such vitriol cast at Joe. He is a credible threat to the hard left’s core belief system. Much more so than a Geraldo or other talking head. Joe is as transparent as quartz glass. He’s a real guy!
Consider Jay Rosens Jan 12 article at journalism.nyu.edu, “Audience Atomization Overcome: Why the Internet Weakens the Authority of the Press” (also see “Uncensored War”, Daniel C. Hallin). Substitute the hard left for the press in that equation: Israel is evil! Israel=Evil is in the left’s “Sphere of consensus” (God alone knows why!). You don’t question it. By questioning it Joe has been place somewhere in the outer reaches of “Sphere of deviance”, in much the same way Sarah Palin was pilloried by a media who would not touch a “real feminist” with a 10 foot pole!
It’s elementary, Watson.
Charlie
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:16 pm 132. Markus:This stunt is simply another example of politics, journalism and serious life-and-death matters being reduced to showbiz and entertainment.
Anyway, congratulations on all the publicity you got on this from the real press, Roger.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:19 pm 133. Gozer the Carpathian:Honestly what’s wrong with Joe being over there and reporting on this? Are those who are against Joe also agains blogs not run by “proffesionals?” Seriously what’s wrong with a normal person getting their version of events out there?
Also, can any of our “professionals” tell me what it is you learn in school that makes you more “qualified” to go over someplace and tell what you see is going on? Anyone?
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:33 pm 134. JF:We would not have an Ernie Pyle to look up to today if the Internet and commenters had existed back then. We are no longer nice people. What happened to our nobility? Reading comments frightens me.
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:35 pm 135. subreen:to rvastar
Jan 13, 2009 - 6:39 pm 136. where'smycheck?:You can go ahead and call me names, it doesn’t hurt especially when bombs are thrown at cilivans and bodies are being torn apart. Next, I said I listen to both Arab and Israelis perspective views, but it is like you only read I am only interested on just the Arab world view. All the horror things you mentioned are probably true because you got good people and bad people in the world. Now hundreds of Catholic priests did naughty things to little boys, but I would never put all catholics in the same category in those with priests that have abuse. Remember, there are good people and bad people, and they come from all different religions,races and countries. Peace!
129. Harsh Reality:
Where’smycheck, actually, that’s your Obama-Derangement-Syndrome talking.
He took time out to slowly and deliberately answer Joe’s question. He didn’t fumble or make any stunning concessions. People who claim forced him to do that are disconnected from reality.
Watch the video. Obama explains his tax plans. That’s it.
Joe, on the other hand, misrepresented himself. In that particular interaction, Obama actually coems off as the better man.
Please try to place your foaming-at-the-mouth hatred to one side. The man will soon be president – your president. We’re in some tough times, give him a chance before you condemn him.
You’re supposed to be better than the liberals who behaved this way toward Bush, right?
——————–
Wrong! I’ll show BHO the same respect that you and your ilk showed GWB, therefore I’m no better than you… I suppose! Unlike you, I’m willing to admit it!
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:02 pm 137. Harsh Reality:[Sigh...]
For the third time, I’m not a liberal, I’m a libertarian. I supported George W. Bush from go to woe.
Obama has not proven to be the maniac radical we worried about. He’s your president, give him a chance.
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:18 pm 138. SpaniardinTexas:Why not? Anybody remember Sean Penn? Why can’t Joe be a reporter? He can’t worse than Sean Penn sucking up dictators..
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:22 pm 139. Confused:last I remember, the guy wasn’t a licensed Plumber, so why the hell does everyone continue to call him Joe the Plumber?
How about Joe the puppet?
Jan 13, 2009 - 7:43 pm 140. john from cinncinatti:you guys are just a bunch of haters. you just gotta kick a guy cuz he’s new to the scene. if HAMAS is tearing up the pipe to make rockets let the IDF tear up the ground to lay more down. See how good the IDF is to the Palestinian cause?
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:08 pm 141. Gary Thorington:how did Sarah Palin get dragged into this. oh its the same haters. i get it. i must be like Joe, kinda slow, but i get it.
Subreen we used to hearing one voice from ABC,NBC,CBS,CNN,PBS,MSNBC, the leading newspapers and magazines and they all have the same biased view??? You seem to be the one who doesn’t care about other opinions other then those of the previously mentioned MSM. If they had been objective and fair Fox News probaby never would be around. Liberals used to welcome all viewpoints but they seem to have been sovietized and only want one view. I don’t care who says it but you can’t get the MSM media to admit that Hammas and the rest of them want Israel eradicated.
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:25 pm 142. minero:After 8 yrs of the “Canadian United Front”, lobbing missiles from north of the Canadian Border onto cities in the USA, the Government of {insert a presidents name} decided to take matters to hand and launch a ground and air offensive on known areas of CUF strongholds.
Imagine if this would ever have been tolerated. Joe is not a reportere is simpliy conveying comments on every day life over there
More power to him
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:26 pm 143. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:Harsh buzz, you’re on the wrong thread. That’s Jenifer Rubin’s crack dream that 0bama is going to be something other than the Maoist/Trotskyite that he is. Go enlighten the lumpen there.
Jan 13, 2009 - 8:34 pm 144. Jonas Blane:This is a stupid waste of time.
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:00 pm 145. where'smycheck?:[Sigh...]
For the third time, I’m not a liberal, I’m a libertarian. I supported George W. Bush from go to woe.
Obama has not proven to be the maniac radical we worried about. He’s your president, give him a chance.
—————–
Whether or not he’s a maniac radical is questionable. His past affiliations lead me to believe that he’s at the very least sympathetic to radicalism. Shouldn’t we be questioning his judgment? Absolutely, we should! I will admit that so far he hasn’t pissed me off to an extreme, but I’m afraid that it’s inevitable. After all, you can’t hide your stripes indefinitely! We shall see!
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:14 pm 146. Daily Koan » Joe the Plumber Update:[...] is really telling is PJ Media’s CEO.
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:19 pm 147. JUST A NORMAL GUY:WELL I EVEN HEARD THAT OBAMA WAS TALKING ABOUT JOE THE PLUMBER ON TV TODAY AND TYPICLY SHOWING DISDANE FOR HIM JUST LIKE A LIB WOULD BUT ANYWAYS I SAY THAT IF THE REPUBLICANS KEEP ON STICKING WITH JOE THE PLUMBER AND SARAH PALIN THEY WILL WIN EVEN MORE ELECTIONS BECASUE THIS IS TEH VOICE OF THE PEOPLE
Jan 13, 2009 - 9:59 pm 148. ic:Joe should cut down his ‘you know’, otherwise he is fine.
He never claimed to be unbiased or professional, he said he wanted to show Americans the Israeli’s side of the conflict to balance out the MSM professionals’ Hamas supplied “news”.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:02 pm 149. Gary Thorington:Libs here don’t want Israel’s viewpoint on the mass media. They remind me of the ones who looked the other way when the Nazis shipped Jew after Jew to the gas chambers. Seems like the thirties are repeating themselves. I do have to realize that the Jews have been hated through the whole world’s history.
Jan 13, 2009 - 10:17 pm 150. I’m surprisingly impressed… « The Better Part of Valour:[...] with Joe the Plumber reporting from southern Israel. I have to say I thought this was rather a tasteless gimmick by Pajamas TV, but the guy has a head on his [...]
Jan 13, 2009 - 11:20 pm 151. Judith:Just viewed Day three of Joe’s coverage…sounds like he’s getting a good education from all those officials & at IDF briefings…how about sharing them w/ us. I’d like to hear what Dore Gold said. I’d like to hear the citizens that Joe’s says he is talking to on the street…let them talk. H e is falling into the Geraldo Rivera syndrome of letting the story be all about him. The best reporters just ask a smart, simple question & then let the interviewee talk. That said, Joe’s day one when he went to the scene & showed pictures of the reality on the ground w/ the bunkers in Sederot was great.
Super kudos to PJTV for having Caroline Glick. No pc spin w/ her & totally lucid, insightful w/ a grasp of the big picture of how a loss for Hamas is a lose for Islamic Jihad everywhere. She’s a grown-up about war & world affairs & is not deluded by the moral blinders of the MSM.
Jan 13, 2009 - 11:31 pm 152. Gary Thorington:Normal Guy you want to hear about what Hammas has in mind for Israel? Why are you afraid to hear it? Tearing down Joe or any other who brings you that news because the MSM ignores it? I don’t understand why folks here miss this point. You will be hung by a Muslim rope and still griping about how Joe has no credentials and how stupid the GOP is. Libs better wake up or they will find their freedoms washed away, just as the Germans did after Jan. 1933.
Jan 14, 2009 - 12:06 am 153. Lowfields:Dear MARGIE (et al)
Why on earth do you want to hear news as important and nuanced as the Middle East conflict explained by a guy “you can relate to”…?
Is that how far the US has sunk as a society, that our news has to be placed through the filter of unfettered ignorance – and partisan bias (of which ever stripe) – just so it can be digested by “normal” people?
When I have an operation, I want someone with ten years training and ten years experience. I want someone WHO KNOWS WHAT HE’S DOING to undertake the task. I don’t care whether he’s “just like me” or whether he “gives his opinion as he sees it”. I want him to BE UNBELIEVABLY QUALIFIED.
The same should apply to journalists covering a conflict of infinite complexity – and with genuine global significance.
If the only view of this tragic situation you can tolerate is from a numbskull with a monkey wrench, it’s obvious you’re not interested in being informed – but merely to have your existing prejudices reinforced.
Pathetic.
Jan 14, 2009 - 12:52 am 154. » Joe the Plumber and Caroline Glick at Pajamas TV News of His Land: A Blog focused upon Israel and current events from a Christian Zionist view:[...] Update: As an aside, Roger L. Simon
Jan 14, 2009 - 1:29 am 155. Gary Rosen:Harsh Reality:
“For the third time, I’m not a liberal, I’m a libertarian … Obama has not proven to be the maniac radical we worried about. He’s your president, give him a chance.”
HR is a “libertarian”, but he wants to give BO a “chance” even though it’s quite clear that Obama is champing at the bit to dole out trilions (with a “t”) in taxpayer money to anyone deemed worthy of a “stimulus” i. e. assorted failing businesses and anyone not responsible enough to buy only a house they can afford.
HR is very, very confused.
Jan 14, 2009 - 1:44 am 156. Joe the Logical Guy:Joe the Plumber is a complete and total moron. A perfect representative for the the Republican Party.
Jan 14, 2009 - 1:59 am 157. Lowfields:“It’s quite clear that Obama is champing at the bit to dole out trilions (with a “t”) in taxpayer money…”
As opposed to the miniscule state expenditure of the Bush team…?
Obama would have to grab the treasury by the ankles, turn it upside down and shake it for eight years straight to match the largesse of the Bush crew…
Why is it when a Republican president hands over trillions of dollars of tax-payer money in bloated, no-bid contracts so his friends can profit from an unecessary war it’s called patriotism, but when a Democrat thinks the money might be better spent on educating the nation’s kids or providing better access to healthcare that’s Marxism?
No one has ripped off the US tax-payer more than Bush – and the beneficiaries were the small country-club clique of bankers, arms dealers, oil barons and HMO operators.
Any of the “normal” folk benefitting from that kind of free-market conservatism????
Jan 14, 2009 - 2:06 am 158. Joe the Crapper:Joe is the next big thing since slice bread. Good for you, Joe! You are the real man! You know Gaza and Israel as the palm of your hand, and as your tax forms.
Jan 14, 2009 - 2:18 am 159. happy1ga:This has to be one of the most entertaining threads I’ve seen, lately. Someone being so outraged by JTP? When he is supposedly an idiot, it makes you wonder why people bothered to come here, watch him, create an account and leave a critique. Someone’s drawers must be in a bunch, or they would just ignore him. What a hoot! Also, I have seen the comment made by the “Michael B” person above, linked to about 30 sites today, as the dumbest comment by a moonbat, ever. I guess there’s an award for that, but I don’t know what it is. As for JTP, he seems like a nice, regular blue-collar guy. I do know he has a hell of a lawsuit he can file against his local government for fishing in his personal records and leaking them to the press. If he chooses to pursue this, he shouldn’t have to worry about $$$ for a loooonnng time. He has them dead to rights.LOL. Sue, baby, sue!
Jan 14, 2009 - 4:39 am 160. baby:Stupendous idea-maybe now we will get the real news-the educated journalists ( I mean the ones with degress) forgot the meaning of journalism so lets have Joe do it-I think he will be great. He’s a normal human being, giving a report to normal human beings. give us more Joe-you are the peoples journalist
Jan 14, 2009 - 5:22 am 161. Peter the Sub Guy:153. Lowfields asks:
Why on earth do you want to hear news as important and nuanced as the Middle East conflict explained by a guy “you can relate to”…?
Peter replies: How about because we want to hear a balanced view instead of only what the MSM decide they want us to hear?
Jan 14, 2009 - 5:53 am 162. Steynian 308 « Free Canuckistan!:[...] THE IMPORTANT ISSUES: The Gaza War — Over Joe the Plumber; Pro-Joe: Plumber’s Trip to Israel Scares the [...]
Jan 14, 2009 - 6:20 am 163. JUST A NORMAL GUY:WELL GARY THORNINGTON I AM WITH YOU BUDDY I ALWAYS SAID THAT I AM IN LOVE WITH THE BOYS IN THE IDF THE’YRE DOING A GREAT JOB. I TRY NOT TO FOCUS TO MUCH ON WHAT THE MUSLIMS WOULD DO IF THEY GOT THERE CALIFATE OVER ALL US IN THE U.S.A JUST TRYING TO STAY POSITIVE BECASUE I KNOW WE WILL WIN. I NEVER BEEN TO A MUSLIM COUNTRY OR MET A MUSLIM BUT I’M SURE IT SUCKS.
Jan 14, 2009 - 6:25 am 164. Michael Smith:Lowfields wrote:
Obama would have to grab the treasury by the ankles, turn it upside down and shake it for eight years straight to match the largesse of the Bush crew…
No, Obama proposes to surpass the 8 years of spending increases under Bush within the first 2 years of his administration. Since Bush took office 8 years ago, total federal spending has increased by $1.142 trillion per year — and yes, that’s a horrific and indefensible increase.
Obama’s plan, however, calls for an increase of some $800 billion this year and (probably) a similar increase next year. As lousy as Bush’s record is on spending — and it IS lousy — Obama is promising something much worse.
Lowfields also wrote:
Why is it when a Republican president hands over trillions of dollars of tax-payer money in bloated, no-bid contracts so his friends can profit from an unecessary war….
Of the $1.142 trillion annual increase in spending that has occurred under Bush, only $312.8 billion of the increase has been for defense. So 73% of the increase has been for non-defense expenditures. See the numbers on pages 58 and 59 here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
This is why it is particularly frustrating to hear Bush described as “conservative” and to hear our current economic problems being blamed on Bush’s “deregulation” and “laissez-faire” policies. Regarding fiscal and monetary policies, Bush has been the most liberal president in our history. And far from any “deregulation” occurring, THOUSANDS of additional government regulations have been added to the Code of Federal Regulations during his tenure.
Obama, however, promises to top Bush in both categories.
Jan 14, 2009 - 6:31 am 165. Yawn:I see lots of people tossing around the word “qualified” when talking about Joe. What exactly qualifies any journalist? Good camera presense, the ability to sound smart? Or the ability to look sad when talking about death or starving kids? The ability to pronouce the words on the teleprompter correctly?
If you want to have someone qualified to comment on the Middle-east you need someone with a degree in sociology, economics, history, government, diplomacy and probably a couple others. Let’s not forget a couple of other languages like Arabic, Persian and Yiddish.
Some bonehead with a degree that says he/she knows how to “report” suddenly has a perfect understanding of a region that has been around for over 4000 years and knows everything about it? Because they have a “Journalism” degree? Come on people, don’t give me that crap. So what if Joe doesn’t have a degree? Hemingway didn’t and I seem to recall he was considered a really good journalist. A reporter is supposed to do just that: report what they see. Not offer commentary, not given an “informed viewpoint”, not try to tell me that their degree makes them an expert in this area of the world. Reporters are talking heads who should stick to “reporting” and not try to pass bs that they “know” anything.
So if Joe can do that, he is a step ahead of most other reporters who try to pass themselves off as so much more.
Jan 14, 2009 - 7:06 am 166. Cybergeezer:More funnies today from the AP; They claim half of the dead in Gaza are civilians. Guffaw, guffaw; The slime called Hamas dresses as civilians and hides behind women and children. If the AP can determine who is civilian and not, then they should be working with the Israeli’s to minimize civilian casualties. It’s criminal of the AP not to protect these “civilians”.
Jan 14, 2009 - 7:19 am 167. rvastar:
Jan 14, 2009 - 7:27 am 168. rvastar:And there you have it, folks! Look back at what I said in post 77 about Leftist obfuscations when they realize they can’t win the argument on the merits. subreen now resorts to that old Lefty favorite: moral equivalence.
Here’s a little lesson in moral clarity for you, subreen: there is no moral equivalence – WHATSOVER – to be drawn between a few cases of sexual misconduct by Catholic priests (even if the number is in the hundreds) and cultures consisting of millions of people who condone the sort of behaviors I described above that are rampant in the Muslim world.
To illustrate, let’s try a little thought experiment. At the time that the Nazi’s were rising to power, the Ku Klux Klan was committing terrible acts of racist violence in this country. Now, according to your logic, that fact would preclude the US from having the moral standing to criticize – much less, fight – the Nazis…after all, if segments of our culture were doing bad things, then who were we to judge their culture. At the least, we should have been trying to “understand” the Nazis’ “perspective” on things.
Right?
Jan 14, 2009 - 7:48 am 169. Gary Thorington:Well Gary Rosen we should be aware of their (Muslims) motives and goals. They are stated daily by them by the way. Israel is on the front lines and and they know what they have in mind. Again I don’t care who brings the news as long as its accurate and true. Our media won’t print what Joe is saying. Sure he is probably not qualified but the qualified ones are not bringing the truth either.
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:00 am 170. Pops in Vienna:I keep hearing about qualifications. But, what exactly are the qualifications for a journalist?
I’m not sure what qualifications Obama has to be president but it doesn’t seem to bother a lot of other people.
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:18 am 171. Ben:Dear Confused and other poorly educated souls:
You don’t need a license to be a plumber.
You can work for a company that holds the license.
Ergo, people claiming Joe isn’t a plumber, despite the fact that he performs plumbing tasks, are lying.
(It’s all the more ironic that these same people, denying Joe his plumber-ness because of the lack of a government issued certificate, will then call illegal aliens merely “undocumented”. What’s the matter, you scum sucking hypocrites, can’t Joe be an undocumented plumber?)
I see this come up alot when the Left attacks Joe the Plumber. You get a bunch of leftists together, you can have plenty of educated discourse on the social context of patriarchal materialistic dialectic paradigms, but not a one of them will know squat about plumbing.
Thought for the day: Which would collapse modern civilization faster: The sudden disappearance of all politicians, all teachers, or all plumbers?
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:44 am 172. Plumbing the Depths :: Englishman in New York:[...] Media co-founder Roger L Simon defends the decision to hire Joe, saying: “Many voices are good because the truth is often hard to find. Joe [...]
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:44 am 173. MarkD:The MSM being on the enemy side is bad. The idea that they can somehow suppress the truth is worse.
The MSM are lying and their customers know it. The MSM are dying financially. Evidently they don’t see the connection. Instead, they want to make the other side of the story go away.
Does the Times have anything left to sell, or will this be the year the Duranty award winners get what they deserve?
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:46 am 174. Peter the Sub Guy:165. Ben:
Thought for the day: Which would collapse modern civilization faster: The sudden disappearance of all politicians, all teachers, or all plumbers?
Peter replies: Well, I know the disappearence of all politicians would probably advance the course of civilization.
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:50 am 175. Jeannette:Puhleeze, you’re down on S. Joe Wurzelbacher because he doesn’t have a Journalism degree? Anyone on campus can tell you that a journalism degree is almost as useless as a degree in Gender Studies or Ethnic Studies!
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:59 am 176. Bear Creek Ledger » Media Bias on Steroids - Palin Derangement Syndrome (PDS):[...] hysteria by the media over “Joe the Plumber” goes to Israel as a reporter and the interview by John Zeigler of Governor Sarah Palin (actually interview [...]
Jan 14, 2009 - 8:59 am 177. steveaz:This thread reveals so many biases and urban ‘ticks’ that it’s hard to know which one to focus on.
The penchant for “licenses” and “credentials” is the most glaring of these ticks, if you ask me. I’m amazed by it for a host of reasons.
1. America has had a “do-it-yourself” revolution in home repair, decor and design. Home Depot does not check for a “license” before selling us its lumber, ABS pipe or lawn sprinklers. Why the concern, now?
2. Grade and degree inflation has degraded the value of college credentials for decades now. Outside of the hard testable sciences, credentials in the social “-isms” are soft and ill-defined, and usually accrue no hiring advantage to their holders outside of academe, media and government. They represent saccharin cubes handed out to penned livestock.
3. Standards of all kinds – from base lending criteria to elementary schools’ Physical Education class requirements have been relaxing for years. As the value of physical prowess and competitiveness dropped, so have the denigrated skills along with them. This leaves the relaxing institutions’ assorted awards meaningless, and the institutions, as well as their graduates, flabby and moribund.
As the financial meltdown has shown all who want to see, the possession of a credential from Yale, Harvard or Berkeley in no way guarantees that the awarded knows better and performs better than a freelancer does.
All the credential signifies to me anymore is that some people will pay a lot of friggin’ money simply for the right to say that they are better than the next guy, and hundreds of hyper-wealthy universities will step in to assist them in their arrogance – for pay.
This psycho-pathology appears to afflict city-bound social climbers most of all – thus my relegation of the disease to the category of “urban tick.” It’s like a nervous, twitching eye-lid, or adult nail-biting. People should look hard at the habit and quit it.
Jan 14, 2009 - 9:02 am 178. ThinkingPerson:steveaz…I wholeheartedly agree with your post! I would like to clarify one thing though, it’s the liberal left who mainly use shady credential rational. Re: posters here who believe Sarah Palin had no credentials yet are carrying Caroline Kennedy around like she’s the second coming. How they rationalize that in their small-minded brains is beyond me. Caroline Kennedy? Credentials? Guess that’s how they stomached an Obama vote in the first place.
Jan 14, 2009 - 9:41 am 179. Ugonna Wosu:hi, are you the Roger Simon who wrote the column on AP today?
Jan 14, 2009 - 9:48 am 180. Ann141:[No, I am not.]
The one about race trumping gender in politics??? I must say that although I didn’t bother reading it, I find the example you use in the first line ridiculous. Roland Burris was APPOINTED to the Senate, legally. That is why he’s in, and Caroline is out because NO APPOINTMENT HAS BEEN MADE IN NY YET!! Burris did not have “an easy time” getting in, he was treated like an outcast and ganged up on, and the only reason he’s in is cause the Dems didn’t have much of a leg to stand on, and all the publicity Burris gave himself on the issue. Also, how can you say race trumps gender, when Obama was and now Burris is the ONLY black senator in the U.S. senate??? At least they have about 11 women last I heard. Women do have a gender card, Clinton played it like a violin in the primaries. I’d like for you to stop continuing what she started, this nonsensical war of “who’s more oppressed, blacks or white women?”. As one who is both, I’m sick of women trying to point fingers at blacks and make them look suddenly privileged. We are not. Stop the divisiveness. Its a new year, all these ppl should stop pissing me off!!!!
The hysterical reaction to Joe’s mere presence is very telling!
I hope he lives to a ripe old age and spends a lot of time giggling with his grandchildren over the serendipitous events of 2008 and how he exposed the “journalists” of the world just by being a regular guy.
What a contrast to the other Joe (that would be the veep guy who was already in the Senate when Bambi was in first grade)
Jan 14, 2009 - 10:58 am 181. myna:CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC and their journalist (propagandists for the Hamas) sees red. PJTV has level the playing field. Congrats, PJTV!
Jan 14, 2009 - 11:05 am 182. JerryT:Joe should have no trouble surpassing the NYT and WaPo in war coverage. The hysterical reaction to Joe is found only among those of similar mindsets to the MSM.
Jan 14, 2009 - 11:13 am 183. cro-bar:Educating a journalist is something like high school teachers teaching a credit course for students on using the internet (it happened in our high school, students thought it was hilarious). Hey liberals why don’t you shut up & let us embarrass ourselves with Joe & then say “we told you so”? I think you’re afraid he will learn quick enough to stay arround.
Jan 14, 2009 - 11:20 am 184. Lightnin' Hopkins:This is off topic but deserves all the attention it can get. Since there’s a lot of eyeballs looking at this thread, may I direct your attention to the son of a United States Marine killed in action in Iraq and the ongoing difficulty the boy’s Japanese mother is having with immigration officials.
http://tinyurl.com/6ulfwx
Wherever you fall in the political spectrum, feel free to petition Tennessee senators Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker, and also the White House for help in allowing young Michael Ferschke III to be raised by his loving mother and paternal grandparents in America where he (and she) belong – I’m pretty sure we have room.
Then pass it on. Thanks.
Jan 14, 2009 - 11:36 am 185. Matt Knowles:“Are they grooming Joe the plumber as the running mate for Sarah Palin in the next presidential race?”
God, I hope so!
Jan 14, 2009 - 11:51 am 186. Godzilla:Lowfields:
A 1 trillion dollar spending package is okay if “your” guy is doing the spending? If you’re not a Marxist, then you are at least stupid. A trillion dollar spending package will average out to $5000 dollars per worker (allowing for 200 million workers) in NEW taxes. And Obama has already said he doesn’t expect the stimulus package to fix the economic problems. And in this new package, the one damn thing that can stimulate hiring – giving employers tax breaks for new hires – is being opposed by the democratic majority. Once people really see this stimulus package (and the next one, and the next one) for what it is is, you’ll be able to hear the outraged cry all the way from space. Money for infrastructure and schools (education)…don’t construction companies routinely line politician’s pockets in the hopes of getting bids? The correct answer is yes. Education is a target of an “economic” stimulus package? How? More computers? That will in large part benefit China, where the parts are made and assembled, and also India…have you called up an technical online support line lately?). New school buildings? There’s those construction companies again. And don’t ignore secondary consequences. That new computer on the kid’s school desk means less burgers, pants, shirts, shoes, and night outs for the sorry sap that got stuck with the tab. Also, if the Messiah doesn’t raise taxes hellaciously (to where even you might object, Lowfields), then the government (not we) will be laying one big sumbitcth of a tax burden on our (not the government’s) children. Wonderful.
Jan 14, 2009 - 12:39 pm 187. Sam the Gas Station Attendant:I get the whole appeal of the “average guy” representing “real people.” However, speaking as a certifiably “real” person, are we seriously to expect that the “average guy” charged with representing “real people” be as insanely moronic as Joe the Plumber? I’m “average.” Why can’t I go to Israel?
Jan 14, 2009 - 12:43 pm 188. Annie:I don’t understand why everyone is getting so upset by Joe’s unpaid tax burden-look at Tim Geithner’s unpaid taxes-$40-50,000 dollars he forgot to pay in social security taxes for an illegal immigrant employee. And this guy is going to be Treasury Secretary and oversee the bailout, when he can’t even do his own taxes properly. This makes Joe’s oversight look minimal.
Jan 14, 2009 - 12:56 pm 189. Mike_K:Grade and degree inflation has degraded the value of college credentials for decades now. Outside of the hard testable sciences, credentials in the social “-isms” are soft and ill-defined, and usually accrue no hiring advantage to their holders outside of academe, media and government. They represent saccharin cubes handed out to penned livestock.
Boy, is this right on target. I am paying tuition for this nonsense right now. My daughter, in a highly rated state U, had as her history course final assignment, a paper on white males oppressing women and minorities. This is US History. We chose William Kennedy Smith and the instructor (a grad student of course) never got the irony. The whole course was PC nonsense. Once she gets her degree she can learn some US history on her own.
Jan 14, 2009 - 1:01 pm 190. subreen:rvastar
Jan 14, 2009 - 1:25 pm 191. Peter the Sub Guy:It’s amazing how clueless you are. My whole point was there are good people and bad people throughout the world. Your response shows you can’t stand the idea that you dont need to be black, muslim, hindu,or hispanic to be the villian.My example on the catholic priests who abuse power was to show there are still good catholics out there and should not be put in the same category as those who abuse just because they share the same faith of religion. Now about the understanding Nazi perspectives comment you made. Actually, I would like to hear their perspectives on how they could kill innocent women and children, and maybe I might understand why Israelis are doing the same now murdering innocent women and children. Tactics are differ, but results are the same, dead cilivans!
187. Annie wrote:
I don’t understand why everyone is getting so upset by Joe’s unpaid tax burden
Peter adds: Likewise, it has since been reported that the tax collectors admitted Joe had NOT been informed he owed the back taxes before certain state officials (and the MSM Obama Media) started digging into his records illegally. And once he was informed, he paid it off completely, so this is another red herring the liberals are trying to use to smear Joe with over and over.
Jan 14, 2009 - 1:26 pm 192. Pragmatist:Mike,
Jan 14, 2009 - 2:03 pm 193. liberty4usa:What’s wrong with writing a paper of the oppression of women and minorities in American History? It has happened.
Your knee-jerk reaction to PC nonsense disregards the fact that the paper can be one that compares and contrasts a history of oppression by white males versus a history of white males who supported things like universal suffrage and the abolition of slavery.
History is the study of decisions made my humans and delving into the record to extrapolate their reasons and motivations.
Critical thinking is the key and while overly PC TAs can be irksome, do they teach your daughter to be a critical thinker?
Nobody came closer to derailing the Obama Express than Joe when he got BHO to accidentally expose his true socialist self.
Jan 14, 2009 - 2:13 pm 194. DavidN:Joe has the honesty that the left just can’t deal with!
He speaks to a lot of ordinary and real Americans.
Thanks for having the insight to hire him.
HarshReality:
<>
Millie Lencioni:
<>
I’ve always thought it must be comforting to be a true believer liberal. You always know, in your heart of hearts, that you *care* and the other side doesn’t, that you’re *waaaaaaay* smarter than they are, you’re *waaaaaaaaay* more honest than the other side, and best of all you’re always right. My favorite on the honesty front was a reporter, years ago on C-Span, who opined that Bill Clinton beat the elder George Bush because he “lied more honestly” than his opponent. I think what the reporter meant was that everyone knew that he was lying, so his dishonesty was alright. It takes a truly weird personality to make points like this seriously, without expecting laughter in return.
Jan 14, 2009 - 3:03 pm 195. rvastar:I’m not going to waste anymore time with you, subreen. You’re a pitiable excuse for a human being…twisted, weak, and lost.
I leave you with a cautionary warning from a Leftist who is actually still capable of discerning some moral truth from the deconstructionist wasteland the Left has made of Western culture:
Jan 14, 2009 - 3:07 pm 196. subreen:rvastar
Jan 14, 2009 - 4:15 pm 197. EdGi:As well, I too will not want to waste my time because you’re the one who is twisted and confused. You might be right about one thing, I must be weak because I see nothing funny or interesting about innocent cilivans lives taken away, whether it’s the lives of Israelis, Palestinians, Iraqis, and yes the lives of Americans. I believe in humanity. Also, regarding to Joe the now wannabe journalist, I truly believe you need to know more than just your ABC’s. That’s all.
Actually, Joe hit just the right notes. You and Joe are both much more like Ed Murrow as opinion-making journalists, reporting the facts in context of your known advocacy. Murrow never, ever did the I-don’t-wear-the-flag phony thing of today’s biased media, and eloquently was on our side.
Jan 14, 2009 - 4:43 pm 198. Gary Thorington:Well subreem Ive stated several times that the media is not telling us the truth or they omit it. If they did talk radio and Fox wouldn’t be around. Sure the Palestians have it tough but they keep voting in this hammas bunch that wants to eradicate Israel. Bible also says Israel won’t be going anywhere but thats another issue. I just want to hear the truth from our media with out bias but I know thats impossible these days.
Jan 14, 2009 - 5:32 pm 199. Mike_K:192. Pragmatist:
Mike,
What’s wrong with writing a paper of the oppression of women and minorities in American History? It has happened.
Is there any other US history you might be interested in ? This was 1/3 of her grade. It was not a sociology or women’s studies class. This is basic US history; core curriculum course.
You’re obviously OK with that.
Your knee-jerk reaction to PC nonsense disregards the fact that the paper can be one that compares and contrasts a history of oppression by white males versus a history of white males who supported things like universal suffrage and the abolition of slavery.
No, it couldn’t. The textbook was this book. Read the reviews. There is nothing good about white males in that book or in that class.
This is US History !
If she took sociology or some similar course, it would be what I would expect.
History is the study of decisions made my humans and delving into the record to extrapolate their reasons and motivations.
Critical thinking is the key and while overly PC TAs can be irksome, do they teach your daughter to be a critical thinker?
No, I teach her that. One of the last sessions of the class before the final, the TA spent most of the hour talking about how Reagan had been an actor and he was just acting a part as president and anything good that happened during his presidency was an accident.
Then she announced that, since her laptop had been stolen and all the grades were in her laptop, everybody needed to bring all their papers in for her to record their grades again. If anyone didn’t bring in their papers, their grade would be based on the last paper only plus the final exam.
Since she got an A on the Smith paper, she and everybody else in the class forgot to bring their old papers in.
The final exam was half essay and the choices were two. The one my daughter chose was “The Silent Majority.” The instructor had told them that the silent majority was racist because they opposed the Civil Rights Act. In fact, the Silent Majority was Nixon’s term for those who supported the Vietnam war. It had nothing to do with the Civil Rights Act but these kids could not say or write that.
It was an easy course as long as you knew that whites are racist and white males are always bad.
People wonder why college educated people are voting for Democrats now. My daughter knows better but has to spout the line or fail. They are cynical by the time they finish the freshman year.
Her English class was all about movies. They don’t read anymore. I was an English major while I took pre-med as electives. It is really sad to see what has happened to the Humanities.
Jan 14, 2009 - 5:32 pm 200. Alan Kellogg:The quality of flibbertigibbits today has declined alarmingly. Time was when they would make some sort of effort at rephrasing their blatherings. Now they simply repeat what they said before, which is usually something rather simple.
The degradation in quality extends so far as to include their initial demands for action, and the arguments they make an inadequate attempt to muster. Where once their prattlings had amusement potential, now the stupidity can aspire no higher than to make your hair hurt.
Here is a bit of information for certain parties with a fondness for clutching blankies till they disintegrate from rotting. We not only set the woman down back by the riverside, but she has since gone home, cooked dinner, slept, prepared breakfast, did housework, entertained her husband that afternoon, and is currently five months pregnant and starting to show. When are you going to let her go and get that ammonia rash treated?
Jan 14, 2009 - 6:12 pm 201. Peter the Bubblehead:(formerly Peter the Sub Guy)
From the review of Mike_K’s ‘history’ text book…
“This brief book is a groundbreaking tool for students and non-students alike to examine systems of privilege and difference in our society.”
This has NOTHING to do with history! This is sociology.
Jan 14, 2009 - 6:44 pm 202. Beth Dewenter:What! No J-School credential. Shocking. How dare this up-start try to crash a gig where only elites and sophisticates have a right to be.
Jan 14, 2009 - 9:25 pm 203. Pops in Vienna:No, Joe the fledgling reporter isn’t a polished newsman. He has much to learn about the craft of being a reporter; however, his passion for telling what he sees in a truthful manner, without the fiction of objectivity, is wonderful. His bias is blazoned in every utterance. Joe’s support for Israel is refreshing in a world in which it is chic to defend the dysfunctional, delusional and doomed citizens of Gaza.
I signed on to PJTV last night. In my opinion it’s not very user friendly. It’s difficult to know what to click on. I also had to keep entering my password to watch additional segments. Maybe it’s me but can’t your geeks make it more dummy proof?
I’d like to hear more reports about what the IDF is actually accomplishing. Why doesn’t Joe ask somebody why Israel got hit with 23 rockets on Wednesday? One wonders how this can happen with the IDF crawling all over Gaza. If Hamas can fire off 23 while the IDF is inside Gaza what can we expect after the IDF withdraws?
If Joe attracts readers/viewers and they keep coming back for more, I’d say that makes him a good journalist. The N.Y. Times has all the elite “pros” and they are going out of business. That should tell us something.
Bill Gates doesn’t have the credentials to get hired by the UN’s IT department for an entry level job. Need I say more?
Jan 15, 2009 - 3:19 am 204. quasar:One only needs to harken back to the good old days when you had Gunga Dan Rather pay Afghan freedon fighter to take a break from the action and help Gunga Dan stagecraft a story for the folks back home. JTP is correct. Keep the idiots out of there.
Jan 15, 2009 - 6:24 am 205. Judith, NYC:JOE’S DAY FOUR:
Kudos to Joe for visiting Nitzan, the settlement where former Gush Katif Israeli’s live after being expelled from Gaza three yrs ago. None of the lazy reporters of the MSM trekked out to Nitzan even though those people are a central part of the conflict’s story( given that the former Gush Katif residents served as a buffer for Israel as facts on the ground, preventing missiles from being lobed into Southern Israel) As soon as they were evicted from their homes, Hamas moved in, destroyed the Synagogues, green houses & turned the land into rocket launching pads. Interesting to see in Joe’s piece what was written on the sewer pipes used to take cover from the rockets (incidentally, the pipes provide protection from the spraying metal shrapnel in the terror rocket’s payload & not from a direct hit.) In child’s writing it says, “We told you so–you can take us out of Gaza, but Gaza will follow you… from orange to red alert” (orange, the color adopted by those against the Gush katif expulsion & Gaza disengagement & red for the red alert of the sirens in Southern Israel.)
I would’ve liked to hear more impressions directly from the mouths of the people Joe was interviewing, instead of Joe describing what he heard from them. Clearly, a first hand account from the former residents of Gush Katif, hearing their voices, would have been powerful & informative. Still, we are getting more reporting about the war from the Israeli side than we get from any of the other “reporters” who just rely on doctored news feed from Hamas Media Inc. Keep-up the good work Joe.
As a Columbia Journalism School graduate & news publisher, I can say w/ some authority that J School is overrated & there is no substitute for boots on the ground, hard work, curiosity & common sense…Joe displayed all of the above plus a healthy disdain for what he calls “dense & agenda driven” reporting. The MSM reporters are frankly complicit in emboldening the terrorists w/ their bias for even-handedness over truth.
Jan 15, 2009 - 7:11 am 206. Mit dem Klempner in Israel » Gegenstimme:[...] hier: As I write this, comments on the various Pajamas Media posts, including mine, on Joe the [...]
Jan 15, 2009 - 1:51 pm 207. David:As a passionate liberal I hereby pledge to offer any support necessary to keep Joe The Plumber;
a) In Gaza / Israel.
b) In the public eye.
c) Spotlighted as prominent spokesmen for the right.
He is comedy gold. Keep him talking. Oh, and I will also pay money to help Sarah Palin become your 2012 nominee.
Here’s to watching the GOP self destruct! Cheers! 3 Days 11 Hours. Count it down, losers.
Jan 16, 2009 - 1:57 pm 208. The Conservative Reform Network Blog » Blog Archive » Joe the Plumber Meets Chairman Mao in Gaza:[...] the Plumber Reports on Israel and the Left goes [...]
Jan 30, 2009 - 5:39 am 209. pst314:“I am disagreeing with people who believe it’s okay to wake up one morning and decide to be a journalist without required education to become one”
That’s risibly silly. You don’t need a college degree to ask people questions. The assertion that you do is a power-grab by people who want money and control.
America did just fine for generations before the j-schools started to take over, and in fact it did better when there were no journalism degrees.
Feb 5, 2009 - 7:59 am 210. pst314:“…I might understand why Israelis are doing the same now murdering innocent women and children. Tactics are differ, but results are the same, dead cilivans!”
Sounds like you get your talking points from the old Soviet Politburo or the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al Husseini.
Feb 5, 2009 - 8:06 am 211. pst314:“In my Maoist youth, we used to say ‘Let a thousand flowers bloom!’ Of course, the Chairman later backed away from this pronouncement….”
Not to nit-pick, Roger, but Mao only said that in order to get secret dissenters to reveal themselves so that they could later be eliminated.
(Not nit-picking, Roger, just clarifying a small point for the benefit of your many readers who were born after the Cultural Revolution.)
Feb 5, 2009 - 8:11 am 212. ktward:Actually, those of us on the ‘left’ care not at all what Joe the not-Plummer/not-Jounalist has to say. He’s already demonstrated his lack of expertise, the poor guy doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. I imagine he’s close to the end of his 15 mniutes. It does, however, speak volumes about PJTV. I used to read you as a way to absorb all points of view which I believe is the only way to have well-informed opinions. Your promotion of JTP as a journalist–a highly professional vocation requiring formal education and experience–dissolves your credibility, and your exploitation of him (he’s clueless, poor sap) is cruel.
Mar 9, 2009 - 10:45 am