No doubt “inside” reports of what really went on behind closed doors between Israeli PM Netanyahu and President Obama will soon be emerging and we will have to decide what, if anything, to make of them. But judging from their public statements, their conclave was not nearly as dramatic as some had suggested or feared.
Of all the issues that may have been separating the two leaders, the whole “two-state debate” seems to me the most trivial (despite the media making big noise about it). Let’s look at reality here. If either side objects to the two-state solution, it has been the Palestinian. Hamas does this outright in its charter. Fatah does it in its behavior.
Arafat walked away from a Palestinian state in 2000 because it wasn’t sufficient. What would have been sufficient was never clear, probably because nothing would have been, at least for him. In the final analysis, if the Palestinians would publicly and believably acknowledge and recognize Israel as a Jewish state, they (the Paleos) could have a state of their own in about ten minutes. Everyone knows this, except, I guess, that weird reactionary John Mearsheimer. [Well, at least you've heard of him.-ed. Otherwise, he'd just be another anonymous academic. You've got a point there. Gets you attention. Kind of like a sports writer who predicts the Cincinnati Reds will win the pennant.]
So what Netanyahu says now about one, two or even fifteen state solutions is irrelevant. The Palestinian state has been accepted by Israel for decades. The real question is what that state will look like and to what extent it can be armed – and, more importantly, are there enough Palestinians who really want one? As of now, I’m dubious.
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17 Comments
1. Ephraim:Oh, there are plenty of Pseudostinians who want a Pseudostinian state.
So long as they get to keep attacking Israel after they get one, of course.
May 18, 2009 - 2:45 pm 2. Tcobb:All things considered it might be best for Israel to give the Palestinians their own state. At least then the bombardment of Israel could be acknowledged as an act of war with all the consequences that brings into play rather than the ridiculous current pretense that Israel is mistreating a mass of unorganized civilians.
May 18, 2009 - 3:34 pm 3. David Thomson:The Palestinian leadership will never unambiguously declare Israel’s right to exist. They will, at most, say that they might recognize Israel in the future if it gives the store away. Adolph Hitler played the same game. A compromise here and another one down the road—and eventually his prey was in deep trouble. And yes, I have no hesitation employing the Hitler example. In this particular case, it is quite relevant.
May 18, 2009 - 3:40 pm 4. bgates:It would have to be a three state solution at this point, unless Hamas manages to kick Fatah out of the West Bank too.
What would change inside Gaza if the Palestinians could start using the word “state” to describe themselves? Would they get their own postage stamps? Finally have a sympathetic ear at the UN? Would it force other Arab states to admit at least one Palestinian, as an ambassador?
May 18, 2009 - 4:13 pm 5. ricpic:“The Palestinian state has been accepted by Israel for decades.”
Has it? By the center-left, what we would call the establishment, yes. But by Likud? By orthodox Jews and their representative parties? Not so much.
Let’s say there was a Palestinian state that regularly lobbed rockets into Ashkelon. My guess is that the Israelis in that city would have to suffer a considerably higher level of bombardment than is now the case before the Israeli government felt their suffering warranted an attack on a sovereign state. Especially given the inevitable uproar from the “international community.”
May 18, 2009 - 4:20 pm 6. hermie:There is no doubt that the only ‘Palestinian State’ that Arafat, Fatah and Hamas wanted was right where Israel is today. They will not stop until they have taken over the entire territory. Then they will turn on each other and the region will be in a state of anarchy for another two or three generations.
May 19, 2009 - 6:05 am 7. Markus:The ONLY alternative to a new Palestinian state in West Bank and Gaza is the current status quo. A status quo that will require more and more repression to sustain as the Palestinian population continues to grow and Palestinian militants gain more power, egged on by the prospect of a single Arab majority state west of the Jordan.
Anyone care to deny this?
May 19, 2009 - 8:11 am 8. Professor Guvinoff:If Israel does manage to preempt a nuclear attack from Iran, they will have saved the lives of the palestinians as well.
Obama got it exactly wrong. Stopping the mullah’s nukes comes first, and the “15 states solution” (Hat tip to Mr. talking hat) second.
Anyone volunteers to explain why a POTUS cannot recognize this?
May 19, 2009 - 9:01 am 9. Steve Skubinna:The two state solution was accepted by the UN too, as far back as 1947. It was rejected by the Arab states then, and has been since then.
May 19, 2009 - 11:12 am 10. porkopolitan:Hey, that’s been known to come true, occasionally…
May 19, 2009 - 12:16 pm 11. Ephraim:The alternative to the status quo is not a 2-state solution but, G-d forbid, another war that will be caused by a combination of Arab intransigence (Hamas primarily but Fatah also) and Western, primarily US, fecklessness, symbolized by Obama’s delusions that a combination of flattering Iran and weakening Israel will bring peace. It will bring the opposite, precisely because the only “peace” that the Arabs (and now the Iranians) have ever wanted is a peace without Israel. Like sharks, they smell the blood in the water and are just waiting for Obama to do their dirty work for them and hand Israel over to them all trussed up on a platter. It will not happen. Israel has tried to accommodate the supposed Psuedostinian desire for a state, but it is always revealed for what it is: just another stage in the Arab plan for Israel’s eventual demise. And still Obama thinks that giving the Pseudostinians something that they obviously don’t want will bring peace. He is awfully stupid for someone who is supposedly so smart.
When this next war occurs, G-d forbid, if Israel has any sense at all, it will do to Hamas and Fatah what Sri Lanka just did to the Tamil Tigers: kill them down to the last man. Wars stop when one side is defeated and their army killed.
I may have missed it, but I don’t recall any UN hand-wringing about what was going on there. Oh, right, it was only Buddhist Sinhalese killing Hindu Tamils, not Jews killing Muslim Arabs. Not anything to get concerned about.
May 19, 2009 - 2:00 pm 12. D-wah:The dirty little secret to all this is the Arabs really dislike Palestinians–they feel threatened by them and suppress them in their own countries. Ah, to paraphrase, what a hypo-critical mess–when first we practice to oppress.
May 19, 2009 - 2:27 pm 13. Promethea:There’s no need to have an independent Palestinian state. When the Second Intifada occurred in 2000, it became clear that “independence” was out of the question.
The Palestinians have had self-rule since 1994. However, without independence, they are theoretically not allowed to import weapons into their country. Only crazy people and liberals think it’s a good idea to allow a hostile country on one’s borders to import weapons.
In what universe would having an independent terrorist state on one’s borders be a good idea? I’m amazed that so many “experts” think this is a good idea.
May 19, 2009 - 8:57 pm 14. aclay1:The Palestinians don’t want a state – they are getting more than they deserve without one. Billions in US and European aid, no accountability or responsibility, and the fun of shooting guns and rockets at innocents. That beats building sewers and schools any day.
May 19, 2009 - 10:27 pm 15. Sunny Day:I stopped everything and I read today, I read hard and fast, because I was thinking I would still have time to read and then get busy with my plans for today. I get lost in the bible lately, and many know this about me. My friends and family know I keep reading the prophecies and scriptures.
Why do I read anything about the United States and Israel and I instantly go to read the prophecies of the bible? I wish I knew, but I think that I’m supposed to read it when I feel the urge to read right now, and this is my true feelings of why I seem to lose time reading.
It really started about a year ago, and it was when I truly realized a feeling of danger, and I know the President of the United States was constantly in my thoughts and my fears. This is not normal, because I usually care more for who wins our local elections than who wins nationally.
I have a feeling of evil in this world, that I was not aware of before, and I love my country, but there is evil here. I am confused, this is true, and sometimes I feel so guilty for my thoughts. I question myself and my feelings most days now, because I do not want any leaders of any countries to be evil, to be of satan, but I still must say I feel they are. I pray about it and ask for forgiveness if I am wrong, because I do not know if I am wrong. Sometimes it is like all things line up and I see it, I see the real thing, and then an hour later I question my thoughts and start telling myself it is a big sin to call someone a false prophet or the Antichrist.
Another weird thing that keeps happening on the days I stop and read is when my family or close friends call me while I am reading prophecies I tell them everything I think is happening, and everything I know I read, but I do not speak of it later, when the questioning starts in I do not dare say what I said earlier.
How many times have I read through Revelations and then questioned myself about what I think? There are so many times I cannot count them. The scriptures say no man will know when, and this is completely true, there is no way of knowing, and only God knows.
I feel the U.S. is either going to be destroyed, or become another Nation with many alliances and I feel the later is looking true to me, because of the U.N. I do know we cannot change it.
I also feel that the economy is being played with by the people who are evil, they’re controlling our world and I feel it is true. I have been reading all day, and I am convinced of it for now, but something that strikes me as peculiar about the whole questioning process I go through is I am very strong headed and I have always been. I usually argue with anybody when I think I am right and I do not waver from my thought, so why question myself now, why the thoughts of regret when I think of him being evil? It is hard to explain what I go through on these days I drop everything and start reading, and I am usually very blunt and to the point so why do I question my own opinions I just had an hour earlier?
I do know that we cannot change the future, and it is meant to be, everything that happens is supposed to be happening. I am not soothsaying, because that is a sin, but I am alert and ready for what will surely come.
Why did I write all of this? I think it is because I have been reading all day, and I think you should find the 13 year old boy you spoke about in your video.
May 19, 2009 - 10:39 pm 16. dmgold:Obama is scrambling on every front, he is a green player surrounded by internationally immature left wing college professors. Obama will be forced to play defense on every foeiegn affairs crisis and boy will there be a lot to come.
Israel will ignore Obama and the ever so shrill Clinton, why not every one else is laughing in his/her face.
unfortunately in the big bad middle east, regimes survive through strength and power, not with hug ins and mutual respect. Obama hasnt yet learned that his mutual respect is interpreted as a willingness of the US Obama administration to compromise and be stared down.
The big question is can the US survive Obama internationally.
May 20, 2009 - 4:42 am 17. RadRight:Give Israel the West Bank. Make Gaza neutral zone. Give them a state to the south, away from Israel.
May 24, 2009 - 10:23 pm