ANOTHER UPDATE: Photo below shows plainclothes regime agents (largely Basij, I assume) who are shooting and beating demonstrators in Iran. They are also invading hospitals to arrest wounded demonstrators. Embassies are being called on to be a safe haven for the wounded, so if you are reading this in a country with embassy representation in Tehran, please notify your authorities. So far the UK and Australia are housing the demonstrators, Canada apparently not.
I don’t believe the rhetoric that Obama is taking a measured position on Iran because he doesn’t want to exacerbate the situation by making America an excuse for Khamenei’s behavior. America already is an excuse, as this report out of Qatar on Khamenei’s speech of the other night makes obvious:
As the crowds started dispersing, they were urged to chant: “Crime is dictated by America.”
“We won’t leave you alone, Imam” Khamenei, the crowd chanted. “We are all brothers and followers of the leader’s order” and “Even though the plots of enemies are too many, the leader of the revolution foils them.” The worshippers dispersed to shouts of “Death to America! Death to England! Death to Israel!”
No, this is who Obama is. What we are seeing is his peculiar personality in action, oddly without affect in the face of tyranny. He still does not speak out firmly even though the House of Representatives unanimously (with the comic exception of Ron Paul) passed a resolution condemning the mullahs. It is a situation that clearly unites the left and right emotionally, but not Barack Obama really. Why?
Whatever the psychoanalysis of this, when it comes time to negotiate with the mullahs – assuming that’s what he still wants to do – how exactly will he conduct those negotiations? Will he labor under the assumption he is negotiating with normal people with “national interests” in the conventional sense? How will Khomeinist eschatology play into this? And is Obama really aware of this eschatology and does he take it seriously? If Supreme Leader Khamenei really believes in the 12th Imam, what is there to negotiate? Tricky, huh?
Meanwhile, the Jerusalem Post has an interesting letter from inside Iran.
UPDATE: Obama reacts under pressure.
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47 Comments
1. Evil Pundit:Some people suggest that Obama suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
If it isn’t about him, he isn’t interested.
Jun 20, 2009 - 11:52 am 2. Dinocrat » Blog Archive » Obama talks tough — about some things:[...] muted response to Iran is that it is a truly revelatory moment. After all, as Roger Simon notes, Iran is an issue that, at the moment at least, “clearly unites the left and right [...]
Jun 20, 2009 - 12:15 pm 3. Some Guy:Why should the US interfere in the internal affairs of other countries?
Jun 20, 2009 - 12:27 pm 4. Lightnin' Hopkins:It always backfires in the end.
This sobering look at Obama’s opinions on democracy in ‘Commentary’ dovetails nicely here and explains a lot:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/special-preview–the-abandonment-of-democracy-15185
Jun 20, 2009 - 12:30 pm 5. Steve:Obama is voting ‘present.’ It is not weird. It is gutless.
Jun 20, 2009 - 12:54 pm 6. G. Clarke:I was educated in Roman Catholic schools through my fourth year of college. So were my children and my wife and my father (but not my mother). If someone challenged the words of the Pope and wanted his election to be recounted, with the Pope saying no, I would not want to intrude on that fight, my training and faith being what it is.
Obama was trained in at least one Muslim school. He had two fathers who were Muslim. The great Imam speaks and something in Obama wants to keep silent. It is almost . . . like his long-lost father was speaking.
Most Americans have no such religious ties to Islam such as Obama has so we see and hear a foreign religious tyrant and we know what we are looking at. So we will never understand Obama’s reaction to this. Don’t try. “Faith of our Fathers” and all that.
Bottom line: Wake up, people. Vote for him again at your own risk.
Jun 20, 2009 - 12:57 pm 7. ked5:My own opinion is his high and mightiness is taking such a “measured” position because he’s secretly rooting for the mullah’s, but he does have enough intellligence to realize that woulnd’t endear himself to those who enable his own power.
Jun 20, 2009 - 12:58 pm 8. venividivici:3. Some Guy:
Why should the US interfere in the internal affairs of other countries?
It always backfires in the end.
Jun 20, 2009 – 12:27 pm
The same thing can be said of government interference in private markets, but that doesn’t seem to be stopping Obama and Co.
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:01 pm 9. PortugueseIslam:The Zionist are furious since the War on Islam is lost and Isreal days are numbered.
From Portugal With Love!
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:01 pm 10. Paul M Hupf:No guts!
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:06 pm 11. David Thomson:“Why should the US interfere in the internal affairs of other countries?
It always backfires in the end.”
Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s a mixed bag like most things in life. There are instances when it is in our DIRECT interest to get involved. Our earlier 1953 intercession in Iran was highly successful. It did a lot of good for both the Iranians and our own country. The United States blundered badly by not continuing its military intervention in Russian soon after the Bolshevik takeover. We also foolishly ignored Adolph Hitler until it was too late.
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:11 pm 12. G. Clarke:“The internal affairs of another country?”
Let me remind you:
Iran, in its advancement of the international religious jihad that Mohammed first called for, has sent soldiers and arms and terrorists into Palestine, Somalia, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Iraq (to kill Americans), Saudi Arabia, probably Egypt, Afghanistan (to kill Americans), Pakistan, probably India, Indonesia, probably Venezuela (Monroe Doctrine, anyone?) North Korea, probably the USA and now harbors Al Qaida terrorists wanted all over the world. Also it has built tens of thousands of rockets, thousands of which have already landed in Israel, a foreign country it says it wants to blow up, as soon as it gets a nuclear bomb. I don’t doubt its tenacles reach deep into Europe. Iran has been behind attacks on US warships that have killed US soldiers. Iran arrested and detained US journalists. This has nothing to do with the internal affairs of a foreign, war-mongering imperialistic, Islam-Jihad exporting state. It has to do with our current single war which we finally recognized after a few decades on 9/11/01/.
How could you be so stupid, Some Guy, in saying such a stupid, knee-jerk thing, that our relations with Iran, who has been at war with us for decades, is entirely internal to Iran?
As your penance write a 100 times on the board. “There’s a thirty year (+) international anti-dhimmi terrorist war going on, and Iran is behind most of it.”
Thank you.
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:25 pm 13. Henry Kissinger:“[...] I think the president has handled this well. Anything that the United States says that puts us totally behind one of the contenders, behind Mousavi, would be a handicap for that person. And I think it’s the proper position to take that the people of Iran have to make that decision.”
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:29 pm 14. Peggy Noonan:“America so often gets Iran wrong. We didn’t know when the shah was going to fall, didn’t foresee the massive wave that would topple him, didn’t know the 1979 revolution would move violently against American citizens, didn’t know how to handle the hostage-taking. Last week we didn’t know a mass rebellion was coming, and this week we don’t know who will emerge the full or partial victor. So modesty and humility seem appropriate stances from which to observe and comment.”
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:34 pm 15. rc:“Some Guy:
Why should the US interfere in the internal affairs of other countries?
It always backfires in the end.
Jun 20, 2009 – 12:27 pm”
Then why is he interfering in Israeli internal politics?
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:37 pm 16. David Thomson:“Anything that the United States says that puts us totally behind one of the contenders, behind Mousavi”
That’s utterly ridiculous. The United States does not have to pick sides. It merely needs to call for the rule of law—and especially fair election results. Nothing more whatsoever. Let the cards fall where they may.
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:41 pm 17. Delia:Kind of depressing, isn’t it, Mr. Roger L. Simon? The gutless wonder-prez only responds when it might ‘hurt’ his ‘image’ and that’s about all there is to it. Sickening.
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:42 pm 18. Delia:14. David Thomson,
‘Rule of law’ only applies to those who actually live by them and ‘Sharia law’ is skeeeeery. Sometimes ‘laws’ [especially WHACK laws] need to be broken. Killing, abusing and torturing people who are standing against tyranny is lawlessness to the umpteenth degree imho.
Jun 20, 2009 - 1:45 pm 19. David Thomson:‘Rule of law’ only applies to those who actually live by them”
Iran officially claims to hold fair elections. The United States merely needs to demand that the mullahs live up to their promises to the Iranian people. Oh my goodness, are you implying that these religious leaders are lying scum bags?
Jun 20, 2009 - 2:00 pm 20. Roger L Simon:Thanks to Henry Kissinger and Peggy Noonan. I’m sure that our readers were not aware of “your views” and have changed their opinions accordingly. Meanwhile, the basij storm into hospitals and beat the wounded… just the way they did in 1999.
Jun 20, 2009 - 2:14 pm 21. Sebastian Shaw:President Obama does not possess the leadership ability to take a stand; ultimately, he is a follower of the radical Left. I also believe he, deep down, sides with the oppressive Mullahs given his lust for political power to consolidate it in the Executive Branch. In other words, President Obama wants to rule not govern. As a follower, he will wait until the chess pieces fall where they may & finally take a stand with his blustering bravado. President Obama is really all shadow & no substance which will be his downfall when he loses control of the very things he wishes to control.
I also believe his narcissism leads him to make the wrong decisions. Coupled with ignorance & his arrogance, these 3 things will make a combustible brew which will backfire on him & his administration.
Jun 20, 2009 - 2:22 pm 22. Gary Rosen:It’s getting harder and harder to remember that Noonan once worked for Ronals Reagan.
Reagan: “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”
Obama: “Mr. Gorbachev, we are deeply concerned about this wall and are looking forward to working with the Fearless Leader of the German Democratic Republic to improve the situation.”
Jun 20, 2009 - 2:23 pm 23. AtheistConservative:“So modesty and humility seem appropriate stances”
This is the true ‘false choice’ with which we are constantly presented.
Refusing to get engaged with a nation of people crying out for freedom is not ‘modesty and humility’. It’s cowardice and naivete.
The ‘modesty and humility’ canard is the most tired one trotted out by Obama’s love children. He’s so modest and humble, the way he never knows what to do, always talks about himself, always appears on stage and in photo ops alone, and places himself as a ‘god’ between us uninformed, idiotic warring parties.
Jun 20, 2009 - 3:04 pm 24. Sebastian Shaw:President Obama going out for ice cream makes for sad commentary on his priorities when the enslaved Iranians want to be free from the oppressive Mullahs. The President of the United States is not a 9-5 job. I think Obama is obsessed being a shallow celebrity than actual Commander-in-Chief. This will all blow back on him eventually, a thousand tiny cuts of a self-inflicted wound.
Jun 20, 2009 - 3:11 pm 25. Ben:Good for Ron Paul. The one guy that votes correctly. Passing this resolution only encourages further crackdowns on those in the streets of Tehran. Change has to come internally, and it will. Passing toothless resolutions is not only a waste of time and resources, it only serves to antagonize the lunatic mullahs.
Jun 20, 2009 - 3:25 pm 26. gcblues:mr. thompsen,
Jun 20, 2009 - 3:29 pm 27. Lightnin' Hopkins:knowing a few Iranians, and the history of the CIA i challenge what you said.
you fail the understand the dichotomy of Iranian politics and patriotism.
almost all Iranians not in favor of the revolution and old enough to know remember the shah with fondness. the elder, not the son who is percieved as too weak.
despite that, i have yet to meet an iranian that does not despise the cia and what the usa did. even the democrats. actually especially the democrats. if only Americans would see the CIA as powerful and influential as Iranians do. lol.
which illustrates exactly why “democracy building” with boots or agents on the ground is so foolish. history in the region is not written in years, it is written in centuries. using western force to create states in our image is stupefyingly dumb bunny. our endeavor in iraq will fail as it must. sooner if not later. Afghanistan will never conform to western force.
now this is not a condemnation of force in the region or support for obozo. there is much we can do, including declaring war on Iran, however blockades and embargoes really should suffice. at some point american’s need to become smart enough to do what is in our interest and give up the ignorant proselytizing about how great we are. anyone going around talking about how great they are is a jerk. nations the same. our interests are outlined in the bush doctrine clearly stated in the “with us or agin us” speech. i take no back seat to protection of our interests. no back seat to hating tyrants that hang little girls. however, it is flat out stupid and un conservative to invade and change an Islamic country, or to use our agents to subvert and destroy one faction for another. it is counter productive, arrogant, and in that region a proven failure. do you think for one moment that the Egyptian Israeli carter arrangement will last? silly boy, tricks are for kids.
when the usa confines it’s actions to interests of our nation as defined in the carter and bush doctrine, we can then justifiably speak of justice and our abhorrence to tyranny. our actions in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan speak to the opposite. the regional reaction is rightly, who the hell do they think they are.
before i get “liberal” screams i would point out that my position is supported by many many conservatives. simply look at those purged for the bush house. intelligence trumps passion.
Ben, the mullahs do not require further encouragement to kill the protestors or anyone else.
The toothless resolution in question is, as much as anything, a way to pressure President Obama to strongly condemn the human rights abuses and murder committed by the regime — something no president should have to be prodded into doing. He either gives a damn or he doesn’t, and it’s pretty clear that he doesn’t.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:20 pm 28. Ted:Years before President Reagan shouted “Tear down this wall!” to the Russians, he ran out of Lebanon with his tail between his legs. All presidents have their moments of cowardice and courage.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:24 pm 29. Lightnin' Hopkins:gcblues, our “endeavor in Iraq” has not failed, in fact it is quite the opposite.
Additionally, we ARE great, however much it pains you to hear it.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:30 pm 30. Godzilla:Obama is steadily looking more and more farcical. He never seems to be able to say the right thing from the beginning. Finally, belatedly, he has broken out of the “not wishing to meddle” mode, and it follows on the heels of Congress’s nearly unanimous support of McCain’s and Lieberman’s resolution. The next 3 1/2 years is not going to be pretty if he keeps allowing himself to get jerked along by polls. He needs to be leading, not following. He needs to be forced into a room and have anything that Reagan ever said about tyranny and oppression piped into his head. Then he needs to understand that capitalism is better than a fascistic-like government-business partnership, and he has to learn it fast. The next few years aren’t going to get any easier for him, and he must realize by now that the ideas that Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright and company have been feeding him are hogwash. The U.S. is not that Chicago neighborhood that he community organized in.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:32 pm 31. Ben:Lightnin’ Hopkins – We should not pass resolutions of these sorts period. Let nations decide their own paths. Lord knows nations should pass plenty against us.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:43 pm 32. gcblues:lightening
to think Iraq will “succeed” as you perceive success long term is insane. bush 1 was right. time will prove that.
being great, and acting great are one thing. pompously proselytizing your greatness is pathetic.
what pains me is red blooded ethnocentric ignorance which causes people to rightly think the people that act so are asses. chest thumping is very unattractive.
read more carefully before you respond
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:46 pm 33. Gary Rosen:“chest thumping is very unattractive.”
It’s not “chest thumping” to speak out vigorously against tyranny. When the tyrants in question are also malevolently aligned against our country’s interests it’s a twofer – in this case the “neocons” and “Jacksonians” are in concert.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:50 pm 34. Godzilla:Ben: “We should not pass resolutions of these sorts period. Let nations decide their own paths.”
That resolution is the way that Congress can speak as a single entity. Otherwise you have 400 plus individuals talking individually. The U.S should never just stand by and not offer moral support in the cause of freedom, and that is surely the motivation behind what is happening in Iran right now.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:52 pm 35. gcblues:gary i agree with you.
speaking out against the pukes in iran, advocating sanctions, blunting their geo political projection is all fair game.
however, i draw the line there. democracy building is for chumps.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:55 pm 36. Lightnin' Hopkins:“Lord knows nations should pass plenty against us.”
I expect them soon, Ben, considering the fact Israel already gets plenty from the worthless UN all the time.
Lord knows – heck, we all know – that the U.S. and Israel are responsible for all the wrongs of the world. How’s that go again? We created Osama bin Laden, and Israel created Hamas, right? Man, that Ron Paul guy has it all figured out.
Jun 20, 2009 - 4:57 pm 37. Lightnin' Hopkins:gcblues, I read you right the first time, pompous American exceptionalist that I am.
Jun 20, 2009 - 5:02 pm 38. Barry Dauphin:gcblues
Was Bush I right to give helicopter gunships back to Saddam, so that he could slaughter thousands of Shia whom Bush I had encouraged to rise up?
Jun 20, 2009 - 5:27 pm 39. David Thomson:“i have yet to meet an iranian that does not despise the cia and what the usa did.”
I will opt for reality over perception. Getting rid of Mossaddeq’s pro-Communist government greatly benefited the Iranian people—even if many of them fail to realize it. The Shah of Iran was very secular and particularly empowered women. Iran’s economy was improving and things were overall vastly better than today. The Shah was also very friendly toward the Jewish citizens of Iran and the state of Israel. Ayatollah Khomeini’s followers took control of the 1979 revolution and established a reactionary theocracy. They considered the Shah as too westernized. That was the number one reason why he was removed from power!
Jun 21, 2009 - 12:10 am 40. Gary Rosen:“democracy building is for chumps”
Thank goodness we left Germany and Japan alone to develop their own democratic institutions.
Jun 21, 2009 - 1:03 am 41. JW:G. Clark #12—good reminder. Facts trump the delusional policy that Obama creates. He believes that there is no war against the Jihadists, infact he doen’t even believe there are terrorists. Apology, appeasement & betrayal of US allies is Obama’s vision for a world subject to a a UN style multi-culti sovereignty over us “world citizens” & American exceptioalism is a dirty word.
Jun 21, 2009 - 1:25 am 42. noxmix:21. “President Obama wants to rule not govern”
Jun 22, 2009 - 3:10 am 43. qrstuv:Correct. I have seen this for some time so I am rarely surprised by the Dude – He strives to bully the innocent and suck up to the bully which is 180 deg from my way of living or thinking.
Ben: “Let nations decide their own paths.”
The point that you’re missing is that the best way to learn the will of the people is to have real elections.
Otherwise, the “nation” isn’t deciding anything.
Jun 22, 2009 - 5:38 am 44. EdSki:Please don’t think too badly of Rep. Ron Paul. He actually believes America should follow the advice of the founding fathers, and the government should stay out of other nations business, as it only invites more trouble.
That being said, as a private American citizen, I’m looking for anything I can personally do to help them.
But I agree, the President of America should have used the Bully Pulpit, instead of worrying about making the next world wide function slightly more uncomfortable for him.
He voted present. Again.
Jun 22, 2009 - 2:06 pm 45. TIRED:No other country intervened during the trail of tears, slavery or the civil war. I love America, but some people really believe America can do no wrong. I am not one of those people, America is my home it is all I know, but it has a shady past, present and probably future, doesnt mean I dont love my country, I am just not hypocritical.If civil war broke out here now, see how many countries, if any, would interfere. SO GET OFF YOUR PRESIDENTS BACK, I LIKE THAT HE WOULD RATHER WORRY ABOUT HOME FIRST.
Jun 24, 2009 - 9:08 am 46. Fen:“I LIKE THAT HE WOULD RATHER WORRY ABOUT HOME FIRST.”
Yes, I’m so happy he’s remodeling the living room. Just ignore those arsonists down the street. La de da.
Jun 24, 2009 - 11:26 am 47. TIRED:No one said ignore the problem in Iran, America does not have to be part of a civil dispute. Not all, if any, Islamic countries are in love with America, you cant judge them like european countries. When people get involved in domestic affairs, especially without being asked to help, the very people are person that you are trying to help will sometimes turn on there help, telling them its non of their business. Just like in Iraq, not only did we lie to get over there, the people didnt want us there.
Jun 24, 2009 - 2:29 pm