J-Street says it respects Israel’s right to defend itself, but that military action cannot solve a political conflict. They somehow have failed to notice that the only political solution that Hamas is interested in is the destruction of Israel whose legitimacy they refuse to recognize. For Hamas, there is really nothing to negotiate, except more time to restock its weapons with which to destroy Israel. But J Street is sure that the fighting now going on in Gaza will only deepen “the cycle of violence” and prevent a two-state solution. Their solution to the situation is simple: urge the world to demand an end to hostilities, negotiate a cease fire, and a “complete end to military operations.” Yes, they say that the rockets should stop, but Israel should allow food, fuel and civilian necessities into Gaza. They seem unaware that Israel has been doing just that, even as the rockets continue and their own military response takes place.
There is evidence that other liberal friends of Israel have the necessary moral clarity. Alan M. Dershowitz, explains that “Israel’s action are justified under international law, and Israel should be commended for its self-defense against terrorism.” He points out that unlike Israel, Hamas deliberately targets civilians with its rocket attacks, and regularly targets Israeli civilians while literally hiding behind Palestinian civilizations. He makes the point clearly: “There is no legal equivalence between the deliberate killing of innocent civilians and the deliberate killing of Hamas combatants.” Israel, he points out, even forgoes legitimate targets when they feel they are too close to civilians.
Israeli military action has also received support from one of the Jewish leaders most sympathetic to J Street, Rabbi Eric Yoffe, the President of the Union for Reform Judaism. Yoffe sees himself as a “centrist,” and he puts in an obligatory and highly unfair attack on Marty Peretz, editor in chief of The New Republic, whose own understanding of the issues can be found each day on TNR’s website and his blog, “The Spine.” So Yoffe lets his readers know he is no right-wing liberal hawk, which he seems to consider those people at TNR.
Yet Yoffe hits hard at J Street, whose leaders, he writes, demonstrate “an utter lack of empathy for Israel’s predicament.” As for their claim to speak for the moderate American Jewish majority, Yoffe puts it strongly: “It has misread the issues and misjudged the views of American Jews.” Yoffe is disappointed because he considers himself a dove who favors a political, not a military solution. Yet he is shocked that J Street says “Israel made a mistake in attacking Hamas and that the United States…must press for an immediate cease-fire.”
Even worse, Yoffe writes, is that J Street “could find no moral difference between the actions of Hamas,” which has “launched more than 5,000 rockets and mortar shells at Israeli civilians…and the long-delayed response of Israel, which finally lost patience and responded to the pleas of its battered citizens in the south.” The words of J Street, he says, “are morally deficient, profoundly out of touch with Jewish sentiment and also appallingly naïve.” And unlike others, he-like Peretz- knows that Hamas “is a terrorist gang” that wants to act with impunity, and that no Israeli government of either the right or the left can agree to a two state solution with the likes of such thugs.
Checking with his Israeli friends in the peace movement and the Left, he informs his readers that these people – all of whom oppose Israeli settlements as impediments to peace- see the Gaza action “as tragic but necessary,” and that they are “astounded by the opposition of American doves.” In Israel, he notes, politicians on the Left support the offensive, as do 80% of the populace. And as for the incoming Obama Administration, which he fully supports and for whom he voted, Yoffe notes that “this war has the support of our liberal president-elect.”
Yoffe concludes: We must support “Israel in her hour of need.”
And, I would add, we must reject and expose the perfidy of the so-called peace lobby at home that proposes action that would legitimize terrorists and lead only to their ability to carry on their never-ending permanent war to destroy Israel.
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65 Comments
1. Peter Quinn:Hi. I am a long time reader. I wanted to say that I like your blog and the layout.
Peter Quinn
Jan 2, 2009 - 6:59 pm 2. David Thomson:“…but that military action cannot solve a political conflict.”
Good gosh, such folks are truly naive. Many monsters describe their nefarious activities as merely political. Adolph Hitler, for instance, brilliantly conned people into believing that his goal was to merely work out a political solution agreeable to the other western nations. War was supposedly the last thing he desired. Well meaning fools like Neville Chamberlain and Stanley Baldwin bought into this lying bovine excrement. The reality is this: effective military action is the virtually the only way to solve these “political conflicts.” War is often the only real solution.
Jan 3, 2009 - 12:15 am 3. Scott M:I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.
Psalm 18:37 KJV
I didn’t notice any mention of UN enforced truce, or Security Council Resolutions. Israel’s policy seems always to be a version of a character from Popeye, Wimpy. I’ll glady give you a truce today for a promise of cooperation tomorrow. Someday, Israel’s friends will realize that all of us put together cannot overcomes Israel’s refusal to defeat its enemy. This dog and pony show of massing armor on the border for a few days is prelude to another 2006 Lebanon failure. If Israel was serious the armor would have been off TV until they engaged the enemy.
Israelis didn’t overthrow the government when Olmert lost in Lebanon and that says more about Israel’s future than anything else. It’s a real pity such a strong nation has become so weak, so quick.
General William T. Sherman showed the world how to deal with an entrenched, ideological foe. You drop into his center of power and you make everyone supporting the war pay for their passive and active support of the war and the ideas behind the war. Until you make the Gazans more afraid of Israel than Hamas there is no possibility of victory. If the Gazans are sufficiently impressed they will race each other to ID or kill Hamas, anything less is cooperation with Hamas. If the Gazans are particularly immune from learning the lesson they must be driven far enough away or destroyed in place. If you make the craters big enough you don’t have to read the enemy’s mind.
Jan 3, 2009 - 3:53 am 4. Adina:I will go a step further in exposing the treachery of the J Street gang.
They are indeed in sync with the ultimate aims of Hamas, all their protestations to the contrary.Friends of Israel – in a pig’s eye.
We have to assume that the movers and shakers at J Street are not ignorant of Hamas’s(a well as Fatah’s) ultimate goal-the destruction of Israel. Therefore, to paint them as just misguided, uninformed members of the tribe, or other such nonsense, is to let them off the hook completely.
Every generation has their turncoats, and particularly so on the Jewish left.They are so petrified of not being included in the power circles of the hallowed elite,(most of whom also want Israel to disappear) they will throw their brethren to the jihadists in a heartbeat.
We must expose their treachery, and then leave them to the whims of the Islamists they seek to protect.
Jan 3, 2009 - 4:16 am 5. Brain Drain:Israel let thousands of prisoners go hoping Hamas would let Gilad Shalit, an Israeli army corporal go, but it didn’t work.
Hamas then thought they could make Israel beg and continue their rocket attacks.
So….
they desired war with one of the most formidable armies and air forces on earth.
Tough talk and tough boys strutting around full of piss and vinegar gonna kick Israels ass.
Well……
Hamas had better get on the phone and sue for peace or in about 1 week
Jan 3, 2009 - 7:01 am 6. There is NO Santa Claus:all their top leaders gonna be dead.
The problem with the left (Jewish, Israeli or otherwise) is that they still hold onto the failed belief that the War Against Israel is between two competing “national liberation movements”; one Zionist the other Arab-Palestinian. This has been proven false three distinct times with the rejection of the two-state solution in 1947-48, 2000 and 2002.
The War Against Israel is a war between ONE national liberation movement, Zionism and a totalitarian, imperialist movement commonly refered to Islamism, Islamo-Fascism etc.
Regardless of anti-Israel media bias, this simple fact becomes clearer by the day as Islamists attack India, Spain, and even muslim countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Try as hard as they may, the left (Jewish, Israeli or otherwise) can’t ever close the sale on a two-state solution (My! How President Clinton tried!) because in the end, the War Against Israel is NOT between two competing national liberation movements.
Jan 3, 2009 - 7:23 am 7. ~Paules:It’s easy to accept moral equivalence if you first submit to the notion that the West is responsible for all the world’s ills. The idea of collective guilt is contrived to create a sense of self-loathing in the individual for his nation, culture, and race followed by absolution from the priests of moral equivalence and multi-culturalism. This allows the believer to adopt a sense of moral superiority.
The strategy provides therapy for the believer while conveying political power to those capable of espousing the doctrine with a straight face. In short, the entire idea of moral equivalence is a con job. It never addresses real-world problems, but then it’s not designed to provide solutions. It allows for much therapeutic hand-wringing and public posturing even as politicians are busy kicking the can down the road for another day.
The real scandal is that so many world leaders are willing to use a crisis like Gaza to shore up their domestic political support. Espousing platitudes and bromides through the media is cheap and risk-free political theater. Those who espouse moral equivalence are either morally bankrupt or dupes of a carefully contrived lie. The suffering in Gaza will continue because the truth has been subverted.
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:00 am 8. tanstaafl:From the J Streeters…
And there is nothing to be gained from debating which injustice is greater or came first.
Really ? Hamas exists only to wipe Israel of existence.
Despite the paeans Hamas (and Hezbollah) offer to improving their citizens’ lives, both of these groups are organized around the premise of erasing Israel from the map. That notion informs their recruitment, it keeps their blood lust (excuse me, enthusiasm) high and is, literally, their raison d’être.
The ideology goes way beyond a dispute over territory.
There is no “moral equivalence” between Israel and Hamas.
Have the J Streeters read
The Covenent ?
What is so hard to grasp about these fundamental concepts that Hamas itself has spelled out for you in writing ?
Have you never read a Nasrallah speech on “the Jews” or watched a Hamas training video ? Nasrallah likens an entire people to cancer, in need of eradication. (that need for eradication might extend to the J Streeters)
What’s needed now is immediate action to stop the violence before it spirals out of control.
What’s needed is for Israel to continue until Hamas supply lines, storage depots and training facilities in Gaza are completely disabled.
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:03 am 9. Mike:The progressive Jewish community needs to understand that the Zionists were right when they basically said that without a Jewish state no Jew anywhere in the world is safe. Utopian socialist dreams never kept anyone safe, only the ability to defend one’s self will do that. People can talk about a two state solution all they want but as long as one side calls for the total extermination of the other side all the talk in the world will not solve a thing. It was weapons wielded by people that stopped Hitler not talk.
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:05 am 10. R a Z o R:We have a right to defend ourselves in North
Carolina . This right is called the ” Castle
Doctrine ” . A person’s home is his castle .
Part of this right also includes standing our
ground when we are away from home .
Solomon’s Temple with the Dome of the Rock
makes a crusaders heart go pitty pat .
If we are intent on blowing our selves up ,
remember to do it in the name of God . If the
Hamas wants to attack Israel then Israel has
a right to defend . When Isreal is attacked
Israel attacks .
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:14 am 11. Valerie:Hamas’ actions are clear, and consistent with its founding document, the Hamas Covenant.
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP109206
This is a suicide pact disguised at a statement of intent to commit murder. It is also blasphemous and a slander against Islam. It contains an agreement to support an advertising campaign to persuade Muslims that murder of their neighbors is a religious duty.
It is time to put an end to this nonsense, and the United States is in no position to do so. The steps that are needed belong to Muslim scholars worldwide and to the governments of the Arab and Muslim countries. This document must be repudiated. That should be an easy step for any decent Muslim. Further, the Muslim and Arab governments that have aided and abetted the crimes by Hamas must do something to help clean up the mess they have created: they must give the Palestinians the right to buy homes in the Arab and Muslim countries, using their own money, on the same terms as citizens.
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:51 am 12. venividivici:Has there ever been a postulated moral equivalence that actually stood up to empirical analysis? The only one I can think of that comes close was Henry Kissinger’s quip that it was a pity both sides in the Iran-Iraq war couldn’t lose. There were two antagonists who were truly deserving of mutual destruction.
“Moral equivalence” is a form of pseudo-thought. I refuse to engage with anyone utilizing it in debate, or, if I do have to engage that individual or group, I first delegitimize the moral equivalence using empirical analysis (which is actually extremely easy, as the paragraph about the gulags vs. McCarthyism shows), then move on to any subsequent issues. It and subjectivism are two cancers eating away at Western intellects and their use is definitely a sign of a compromised intellect (not to mention the moral aspect).
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:54 am 13. jaydee:Wow…a lot of hatred in these comments.
Has anyone here seen these photos: Not that it matters when you are dealing with collective
narcissim and a total lack of empathy.
http://palestinian.ning.com/forum/topics/the-other-side-of-the-story
Jan 3, 2009 - 8:56 am 14. Bilgeman:“At this moment of extreme crisis, we’re showing that, among those who care about Israel and its security, there is a constituency for sanity and moderation”
Okay…some gang is shooting up your house indiscriminately every night in drive-by attacks, and the “sane and moderate” thing to do is stand in your front yard with a sign saying “Let’s Talk”?
(And it’s ALL BUSH’S FAULT anyway.)
Methinks that the folks behind “J Street” are in dire need of a “rectal periscope”.
I hope the Knesset and the Israeli cabinet sends these goobers’ e-mails straight into the spam bucket.
Don’t take counsel from your enemies…
Jan 3, 2009 - 9:12 am 15. Bilgeman:“This is a fundamental American interest. We too stand to suffer as the situation spirals, rage in the region is directed at the United States, and our regional allies are further undermined.”
It’s a “fundamental American interest” to give ANY kind of legitimate status to Hamas…a terrorist organization?
And what “regional allies” are these people talking about?
We rent ALL of our “allies”, in one kind of coin or another.
Despite their propaganda otherwise, the people behind “J Street” reveal themselves to be just another set of “Kapos”.
“Just move along out of the boxcars quickly and quietly…”
Jan 3, 2009 - 9:18 am 16. Pappadave:…and “Don’t worry. We’ll give you your clothes back as soon as you’ve finished your showers!”
Jan 3, 2009 - 9:37 am 17. DoubleTapper:There is no dilemma.
This is not how we want to live!
Jan 3, 2009 - 9:38 am 18. wGraves:Would you?
DoubleTapper
DoubleTapper@gmail.com
DoubleTapper, blogging on Guns Politics Defense from Israel
Have these folks forgotten? What happens when you appease murderous dictators and focus on unrealistic blandishments of peace based upon bogus reasoning? Heven’t they seen this before somewhere?
I shared an office with a fellow who was an inmate in a WWII concentration camp. He told me that when the Nazis arrived, they promised to let educated Jews live and work in libraries if they would self identify. Then they executed those who volunteered, it was all a ruse.
Resisting tyrants is a lot of work, but it keeps one alive. It’s the only way.
Jan 3, 2009 - 10:04 am 19. Donna V.:J-Street and other Jewish groups who sympathize more with the enemy than with their own people have an impact far greater than their numbers. Because the average American gentile, who gets all his or her information about the conflict from the MSM, never sees Muslim groups denouncing Hamas and terrorism, the conclusion Mr. or Mrs. Joe Average draws is “Hey, if even Jews are saying Israel is wrong, they must have a point.”
And, of course J-Streeters and any anti-Zionist Jewish group are held up and waved around triumphantly by real anti-Semites, who deny being anti-Semites because “these Jews are saying the same thing we are.”
It is frustrating. And, I have to admit that after the results of the last election, I found myself wondering why I, a Catholic conservative, seem to care more about Israel than the liberal Jews I know. The Jews of my acquaintance are far more worried about Sarah Palin and the Christian right than about Iran or Hamas. It is very frustrating and has caused me to wonder why in the world I am wasting my time on this.
The answer is that it isn’t just a Jewish issue. The attacks on Israel are part of the attacks on Western civilization and, as a Westerner who believes we must defend those values and our civilization, I’m bound to support and defend Israel to the best of my (poor) ability.
Jan 3, 2009 - 10:22 am 20. tanstaafl:I will go a step further in exposing the treachery of the J Street gang.
I can get into that notion, Adina.
You never know (without looking deeply and you still may not find out) who, exactly, is behind such organizations.
I recall the completely ideologically bent Palestinian organization that recruited (the Jewish girl) Rachel Corrie. She was literally used as a pawn and her death in southern Gaza was symbolic and useful to the radical cause, just as deaths happening now in Gaza are useful to the radical cause.
I believe the Israelis are trying to avoid civilians and have made efforts to warn them as to what the targets in Gaza will be.
It will be a shame, as Scott M writes, if the Israelis have truly lost the backbone to proceed.
Jan 3, 2009 - 11:07 am 21. Mudpie:JayDee:
Jan 3, 2009 - 11:10 am 22. venividivici:The pictures show war, which is what Hamas
wants. Those lying on the ground are enemy
combatants. The only problem is there are too few of them.
jaydee:
Wow…a lot of hatred in these comments.
Has anyone here seen these photos: Not that it matters when you are dealing with collective
narcissim and a total lack of empathy.
http://palestinian.ning.com/forum/topics/the-other-side-of-the-story
Hating what is hateful is a robust evolutionary strategy. The talismanic power you ascribe to the word “hatred” is as laughably primitive as the pagan holding his fetish in the hope that it will protect him from reality.
One of the principal components of a deterrence strategy is to make your opponents fear striking you again because of the retaliation you will deliver. I don’t care if that requires creating 50 photo galleries to contain all the images of destruction.
And one day, those rockets Hamas is shooting won’t be Qassams. Your failure to imagine the “end game” is typical of the superficial analysis Rodash is criticizing. “Snapshot” views of Isreal’s enemies’ capabilities do little to illuminate the existential component of the conflict. Can you say with a straight face that if Hamas had stronger weapons, they wouldn’t be using them on Israel as we speak?
I’d rather be a narcissist with no empathy (not that I am, let’s say for the moment that I accept your accusation) than a useful idiot in league with psychopathic fanatics.
Jan 3, 2009 - 11:14 am 23. David P:APPLIED EXPERIENCE is the independent variable which separates the informed from the misinformed, leading to severe intellectual imbalances of our policy makers. Resolution of social equations through diplomacy is favored and given priority in many western academic circles. Often times solutions are reached, agreed upon & demanded by those whose knowledge of a region is only second hand. Crafting state ideology based on the misapplication of moral equivalence have devastating impacts & profound consequences that continue to hinder us.
Jan 3, 2009 - 11:42 am 24. Pappadave:The world press is also complicit. Remember the photos of the “dying boy” in his father’s arms who was supposedly a “victim” of Israeli fire. It was later proven that he COULDN’T have been hit by Israeli fire, and, in fact, wasn’t even dead! But, the by the time this was discovered, the world was condemning Israel because the world press had circulated the Hamas propaganda uncritically. Also, remember the Iraqi woman who screamed at the cameras in English that the U.S. had bombed that “baby formula” factory? She later turned up screaming at the cameras in FRENCH, too, and turned out to be one of the stooges of Hussein’s ministry of propaganda and the baby formula factory turned out to be making poison gas.
Jan 3, 2009 - 11:48 am 25. ConservativeWanderer (formerly C-C-G):Hey, JayDee…
If Hamas didn’t want to have any casualties on their side, what the heck were they doing firing over 6,000 rockets at Israeli civilians?
It’s a very simple question… but I really don’t expect an answer, much less a coherent one.
Jan 3, 2009 - 11:48 am 26. Boyd:#22. I was going to jump in on jaydee’s “hate” accusation (does it get any more cliched than that?) but there is no way to top your response. Good job.
def – Hate: abhorrence, detestation, revulsion, disgust.
Works for me.
Jan 3, 2009 - 12:00 pm 27. Gary Rosen:“The Jews of my acquaintance are far more worried about Sarah Palin and the Christian right than about Iran or Hamas.”
Not all of us, Donna. But it was very disappointing to me as well to see the great support for Obama among Jews. I myself have moved away from liberal politics in part because of the left’s disdain for Israel and their tolerance for savagery on the part of Israel’s enemies.
“I’m bound to support and defend Israel to the best of my (poor) ability.”
No, your ability is great and much appreciated here.
Jan 3, 2009 - 12:13 pm 28. Marc Savoy:J-Street says it respects Israel’s right to defend itself, but that military action cannot solve a political conflict.
Jan 3, 2009 - 12:52 pm 29. fred:History has proven otherwise.
One of the Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals calls exactly for the expanded, adaptable use of the argument from “moral equivalency.” He summons the Gramscian Communist movement to attack the capitalists and Christians when they fail to live up to ANY precept, principle, or ethics stated or implied in their systems. It means to de-legitimize these systems of thought by undermining their reliability and veracity, by pointing out their failures.
This is one of the lowest forms of intellectual combat. It relies on the ignorance and insecurity of the enemy interlocutor. It is supposed to take the unwary off guard and try to keep them off guard. This is what adolescents do to their parents. Example: Kid lays into Dad who is, say, trying to prevent his son or daughter from using drugs or being promiscuous. “But Dad, you did it too!” It’s an attempt to undermine Dad’s correct position based on rational ethics and fact. Dad knows he violated his own precepts when he was an adolescent and young adult. He knows he was wrong then, BUT he is trying to make sure his children do not repeat his mistakes.
The kids who use this type of debate tactic don’t win the debate on its own merits. They are deflecting, stalling, and in general being dishonest in the debate.
This is what the socialists do, in their own way, when they try to impose their worldview on the rest of us. They use intimidation or deception in trying to put it over on us. The way to defeat this tactic:
1. First, recognize the tactic.
2. Point it out to the one using it. Let them know you are on to them.
3. Force the issue to be confined TO THE TRUE FACTS OF THE SITUATION.
4. Make the argument that the equivalency is false, by pointing out the uneven and false use of the equivalency.
The J-Street people have slickly packaged themselves as “progressives” when they really are socialists/Marxists. I know these types of people well. Twenty to thirty years ago, when I was an aspiring academic Marxist I was “counseled” by the activist leader types to label myself a “progressive” and not a socialist or Marxist. I refused this dishonesty, and incurred their ire because of it. BTW, I am not a Jew; I am a Roman Catholic and have remained loyal to my Christianity and in the end my tradition won out over being a Marxist. I broke with Marxism in 1987. These people are simply dishonest and must never be trusted.
Jan 3, 2009 - 1:42 pm 30. EricTheRed:Yes, Donna (#19), Gary (#27) is right. There are more of us out there than you think.
Problem with the J-Streeters and liberal Jews I know are that LIBERALISM always trumps JUDAISM – That includes support for Israel.
http://VocalMinority.typepad.con
Jan 3, 2009 - 1:43 pm 31. fred:The Jewish Republican’s Web Sanctuary
Leftist Jews are not loyal to Judaism or Israel. They are loyal to their socialist worldview. Currently, the Left has made common cause with Islam, taking it as an ally in the fight against capitalism and Christianity. Even non-fundamentalist, moderately traditional Roman Catholics like me are considered the enemy. Why? We have rejected Marx, Lenin, and Gramsci.
Islam is a totalitarian worldview. Any objective study of Muhammad and his sock puppet’s pronouncements finds in them an unwavering violence against Jews and Christians. It is indefensible and it is pure evil.
People who hew to Marxism reserve the epithet evil only for those who are counterrevolutionary and reactionary. Evil, as understood by faithful Jews and Christians, as a category is meaningless to the Marxists. They are incapable of recognizing the intrinsic evil of Islam.
Jan 3, 2009 - 1:50 pm 32. venividivici:Boyd:
#22. I was going to jump in on jaydee’s “hate” accusation (does it get any more cliched than that?) but there is no way to top your response. Good job.
It actually doesn’t get any more cliched than that, unfortunately. I don’t know where along the way people like jaydee became convinced that others had to “think” like they do or else they are “haters”, but it’s ludicrous. I don’t recall Plato calling Aristotle a “hater” because Aristotle disagreed with him. It’s an attempt to elevate schoolyard taunts to serious intellectual standing and it’s a rejection of all the painstaking work done in the centuries of political analysis in Western thought. If the conflict under discussion were a different one, “racist” would substitute finely for “hater”. That the individuals who throw those words around consider themselves the “smart ones” in society is a delusion on par with the Nazis’ “Aryan superman” delusion.
Hating something is the outcome of a process of analysis (when it is rational hatred). The analysis can be a good analysis (”accurate”) or a bad analysis (”inaccurate”). I see no indication that jaydee’s analysis of the Palestine-Israel conflict is more accurate than my own, so I see no reason to accept his conclusions about the conflict or his ascription of motives to me and others who share my views.
Jan 3, 2009 - 1:55 pm 33. JL:The Palestinians and Hamas’ motivation for their current aggression is anger toward Israel. Well nothing new there, everybody knows that. But wait, let’s stop a second and look at the conflickt in the light of basic human psychology. They are angry, so far so good. Psychologically there is really only one antidote to anger and that is fear. The best way to invoke fear in someone, whose behavior is disliked, is an unpredictable and disproportionate violent response to that behavior. In that light, Israel is in this situation doing the right thing. Just as it seems, they did the right thing with Hezbollah in Lebanon. If you look at that operation: It also was a disproportionate, shocking and unpredictable response. Even though many claim that Hezbollah somehow “won” the conflict. Let’s remember that the purpose of the attack on Hezbollah was to stop them from kidnapping Israeli soldiers. So keeping that goal in mind, who cares if Hezbollah claims they have “won”. Hezbollah is still likely to restrain from kidnapping Israeli soldiers in the future because of fear from what the Israelis might do in response. Or put another way: They are no longer angry. If Hezbollah thinks they won a great victory, while they at the same time stop doing their usual nasty deeds, well heck let them revel in that “victory”. We’ll revel in the fact that they are less angry and they don’t kidnap soldiers. Looking at it this way, the main problem for Israel in the eighties and nineties was the predictability in the way they would retaliate. A rocked was fired at Israel, Israel would respond by blowing up a PLO-house. They used measured and predictable responses, which is fine if your goal is to prolong the conflict forever and have the opponent keep doing what his doing. The current method is in much more likely to succeed because of the psychological factor in the way that humans react to unpredictability and the fact that you can not be angry and fearful at the same time. And despite what Hamas might claim, they ARE human.
Jan 3, 2009 - 2:11 pm 34. EricTheRed:Right said, Fred
Jan 3, 2009 - 2:12 pm 35. Bilgeman:jay-dee:
“Wow…a lot of hatred in these comments.”
Do you have an argument, or is an ad hominem attack your entire point?
BTW, nice pics of the Hamas “Ground Zero Napping Squad”
(Those chaps have pretty good color for being dead…y’know?)
Jan 3, 2009 - 2:19 pm 36. hindoooo:Islam is at war with Hindus, Jews, buddhists (thailand?!), confucians (china), Godless nihilists/orthodox (Russians), secular post-structuralists (French riots), protestants (America/Britain). Its not at war with Shintoism because the wise japanese have not let (m)any peaceful religionists into Japan.
Are ALL these other groups “targeting” islam for no good reason? STOP the rocket fire, if you want Israel to stop its retaliation. Not a SINGLE country has the decency to say this..except for of course, youknowwho. What will happen to this world if America falls? now THATS what is TRULY chilling..not these propaganda images from the warzone. Empathy indeed. Are you so seduced by WORDS that you don’t see the difference between targeted killings of civilians/innocents and accidental/collateral deaths? Are they firing the qassam rockets to be humorous and naughty, or ..just because they haven’t succeeded in getting their hands on more powerful weapons to target non-combatants?
Jan 3, 2009 - 3:06 pm 37. ~Paules:I must agree with Bilgeman about the photos. The “napping squad” has me suspicious for a number of reasons. 1) Where’s the impact crater that caused so much carnage? 2) Why are none of the victims dismembered? 3) How is it that even their clothes remain intact?
It’s a fraud.
Jan 3, 2009 - 3:13 pm 38. Donna V.:The “napping squad” has me suspicious for a number of reasons. 1) Where’s the impact crater that caused so much carnage? 2) Why are none of the victims dismembered? 3) How is it that even their clothes remain intact?
Not to mention no blood anywhere. What won’t those clever Israelis come up with next? They’ve managed to invent bombs that manage to knock people to the ground and get them dirty without tearing clothes, limbs, or even cuts. Astounding!
Jan 3, 2009 - 4:01 pm 39. Marc Savoy:Jaydee
Has anyone here seen these photos
I viewed the photos you’ve so pompously linked to. The death and destruction is horrible, and indeed does evoke the emotional impact of sadness and revulsion for what they are being subjected to. I don’t think there’s anyone in Israel who want this to be happening.
The fact that I can match horrific image for horrific image for whatever you manage to display happening on the other side, renders your transparent propaganda ploy effectively null.
Jan 3, 2009 - 4:31 pm 40. Brain Drain:13 Jay-sad-deen
I can show you several pictures of young dead Vietnamese.
But several AK-47 weapons can be seen in those pictures.
Whats your point?
The Vietnamese never fired a single rocket into NY or Atlanta.
These dead Hamas fired rockets into Israel and cheered when Jews died.
Where are the pictures of the dead Hamas with rocket launchers and AK-47s?
Jan 3, 2009 - 4:42 pm 41. Doc99:Hamas and the “Law of Proportionality.” Michael Totten nails it.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/totten/48801
Jan 3, 2009 - 4:45 pm 42. Cindy Sue Causey:Arguing that they alone stand for “sanity and moderation,”
Automatic tuneout when someone presents with a pompous, “I/We are the One, the Only…”
Sorry, Charlie.. No such critter.. There are always alternatives..
Jan 3, 2009 - 4:49 pm 43. ConservativeWanderer:“Automatic tuneout when someone presents with a pompous, “I/We are the One, the Only…””
Heh. Must have made for a nice, quiet election season, Cindy… you tuned out all of Obama’s pontifications!
Jan 3, 2009 - 5:43 pm 44. myth buster:Regarding the pictures:
Jan 3, 2009 - 5:56 pm 45. Modern solutions:putting aside the Palestinian’s propensity to fake pictures of “atrocities,” there also remains the fact that there would be exactly 0 civilian casualties if Hamas was not 1. smuggling weapons through tunnels across the boarder, 2. firing said weapons unprovoked at Israeli civilians, or 3. deliberately positioning said weapons in close proximity to civilians. In other words, every single death on both sides is directly attributable to Hamas’ war crimes. The whole lot of them need to be hanged.
UNITED NATIONS
Press Release
Gaza: Silence is not an option
9 December 2008
The Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights on Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Richard Falk, issued the following statement:
Jan 3, 2009 - 6:15 pm 46. rustynail:GENEVA — In recent days the desperate plight of the civilian population of Gaza has been acknowledged by such respected international figures as the Secretary General of the United Nations, the President of the General Assembly, and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.
Last week, Karen AbyZayd, who heads the UN relief effort in Gaza, offered first-hand confirmation of the desperate urgency and unacceptable conditions facing the civilian population of Gaza. Although many leaders have commented on the cruelty and unlawfulness of the Gaza blockade imposed by Israel, such a flurry of denunciations by normally cautious UN officials has not occurred on a global level since the heyday of South African apartheid.
And still Israel maintains its Gaza siege in its full fury, allowing only barely enough food and fuel to enter to stave off mass famine and disease. Such a policy of collective punishment, initiated by Israel to punish Gazans for political developments within the Gaza Strip, constitutes a continuing flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
It is long past the time when talk suffices. As AbuZayd has written, “the chasm between word and deed” with respect to upholding human rights in occupied Palestine creates a situation where “radicalism and extremism easily take root.” The UN is obligated to respond under these conditions. Some governments of the world are complicit by continuing their support politically and economically for Israel’s punitive approach.
Protective action must be taken immediately to offset the persisting and wide-ranging violations of the fundamental human right to life, and in view of the emergency situation that is producing a humanitarian catastrophe that is unfolding day by day. However difficult politically, it is time to act. At the very least, an urgent effort should be made at the United Nations to implement the agreed norm of a ‘responsibility to protect’ a civilian
population being collectively punished by policies that amount to a Crime Against Humanity.
In a similar vein, it would seem mandatory for the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law. As AbuZayd has declared, “This is a humanitarian crisis deliberately imposed by political actors.”
It should be noted that the situation worsened in recent days due to the breakdown of a truce between Hamas and Israel that had been observed for several months by both sides. The truce was maintained by Hamas despite the failure of Israel to fulfill its obligation under the agreement to improve the living conditions of the people of Gaza.
The recent upsurge of violence occurred after an Israeli incursion that killed several alleged Palestinian militants within Gaza. It is a criminal violation of international law for elements of Hamas or anyone else to fire rockets at Israeli towns regardless of provocation, but such Palestinian behavior does not legalize Israel’s imposition of a collective punishment of a life- and health-threatening character on the people of Gaza, and should not distract the UN or international society from discharging their
fundamental moral and legal duty to render protection to the Palestinian people.
Situation in Gaza – UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights
in OPT (Falk) – Statement (9 December 200
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/3822b5e39951876a85256b6e0058a478/31d…
jaydee: suggest you check this out, as a counterpoint to your link: http://sderot.aish.com/SderotPetitions/15Seconds.php
Jan 3, 2009 - 6:52 pm 47. Bilgeman:jay-dee:
It seems you have at least one dead child in your grody assortment of photos.
Thing is, you have no way of knowing if that poor little tyke was killed in Gaza, or in Lebanon two years ago, or in Iraq five years ago…and by what mechanism.
The child may have been a victim of an Al Qaeda car bombing in Mosul, rather than an IDF bomb, see?
I will stipulate that that indeed IS a child, and it indeed DOES appear to be dead,
But that being the case, you must admit that the gallant men of the Ground Zero Napping Squad look remarkably intact and as I pointed out before, have none of that ghastly greyish pallor that the child has.
Is any of this registering with you, chappie?
Jan 3, 2009 - 7:30 pm 48. fred:Doc99 @37
Hamas and all Islamic military and terrorist groups do not observe the laws of warfare with respect to the principle of distinction. That is because they don’t recognize our laws of warfare, never have, and never will because in Islamic doctrine there are no innocent kafirs. All kafirs can be and should be killed, according to what Muhammad’s sock puppet made convenient for him.
The Totten article was excellent, as it explains the rules of warfare we hold ourselves to. To the J-Street idiots I would state: if Hamas is hiding the weaponry it uses to wage war against Israel in its indiscriminate fashion amongst civilians and even uses civilians as shields for fighters and weapons, Israel is within the rules of war to take out those targets even if they are shielded by civilians. And as it is, it would appear that the IDF and IAF do what is within their power to try to pry the civilians away from their roles as shields.
The J-Street people, and indeed all of the Western Left, are not really interested in a fair argument. They are the socialists who hate us, our civilization, and our religions and their scurrilous, adolescent posturing is fake moral preening designed to take advantage of weak minds and weaken our resolve to defend ourselves. They think they are more moral than us BECAUSE THEY ARE ANTI-CAPITALIST, ANTI-AMERICAN, ANTI-WESTERN CIVILIZATION, AND ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND ANTI-JEWISH. We are the evil and the oppressed Palis are their David against our Goliath. Piss on them!
Jan 3, 2009 - 7:46 pm 49. Mike:30. fred:
Very well said. My sentiments exactly and I wish I could say it as well as you.
Jan 3, 2009 - 9:14 pm 50. RF:“Therefore, whoever wishes for peace, let him prepare for war.” -Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus in De Re Militari
Jan 3, 2009 - 9:46 pm 51. Seerak:The Return of moral equivalence?
I wasn’t aware it had gone anywhere.
The J-Street people have slickly packaged themselves as “progressives” when they really are socialists/Marxists.
“Progressives” are socialists/Marxists. There is no such thing as a non-socialist progressive.
That being said, if the American Left is now doing as Hillary suggested and moving to the “progressive” label — a step towards their ultimate goal of rehabilitating open socialism in America — perhaps so much the better for that horribly co-opted and corrupted term “liberal”; it may finally be possible to restore that term to its proper Enlightenment meaning.
Jan 3, 2009 - 10:44 pm 52. Larsen E Whipsnade:30. fred: “Any objective study of Muhammad and his sock puppet’s pronouncements finds in them an unwavering violence against Jews and Christians”
This statement leads to faulty thinking. Muslims will accept Jews & Christians conditionally. The condition is important. Jews & Christians, to be allowed to live peacefully amongst Muslims, must accept the supremacy of Islam. They must submit and pay the non-believer tax. The problem Israel (& the Christian West) has is that it refuses to submit. The battle will not be over until Jews submit to the supremacy of Islam. So the violence against Jews by Islam is not “unwavering”, it is conditional. It’s a small, but important, difference. From now until the end of time, Israel must either submit to Islam or fight. There will never be any other alternative (such as a 2-state solution, etc).
Jan 4, 2009 - 12:27 am 53. Brian:Well said Fred.Thats what my conlusion was as well.I too was a “lefty” you could say.Thats until i studied socialism,communism and Marxism.These ideologies have removed the family element from their systems.Its a very dangerous path to take and the world has proven it cannot be trusted with such systems.The world will unite just not under the banner of socialism/communism/marxism.
Jan 4, 2009 - 1:08 am 54. Deagle:Well, let’s see… military action win this conflict…. hmmm, the enemy believes that they should destroy the opposition – to the death (and don’t know why they came into existence anyway).
Now, I can see how politics will solve this problem though… Just have the UN justify Israel’s actions until Hamas and other terrorists are destroyed – then declare a political victory.
Now wasn’t that easy…
Jan 4, 2009 - 1:35 am 55. SDN:The only violations of the Geneva Conventions I see here are being committed by Hamas. Not using identifying markings, sheltering military supplies among civilians, sheltering military supplies in mosques and schools, sheltering your own troops among civilians, using ambulances to transport troops and supplies, etc.
All of these are violations of the Geneva Conventions, and organizations and individuals who commit them are not covered by the Conventions in any respect. Every press conference held by the Israelis (and our government, yeah right) should start with that statement, and video footage of the violations.
Jan 4, 2009 - 7:20 am 56. john galt:much is at stake here….. the IDF must be allowed to finish the job, a stalemate or a perceived sign of weakness is unacceptable to all freedom loving people of this planet.
my fear is that obama will use this event to grandstand, to cause a force withdrawl, to cause an end to the war. this will only serve to stiffen the view that Israel is finished, only a matter of time.
hamas? it doesn’t matter what they think or stand for. their actions are unacceptable, and must be stopped.
the local leftists act and think like children. they are pawns, being used by socialists to further some very crude plans to change the world. sarah palin, for some reason, is much more evil than hamas in their view.
what is the end game? it is really fuzzy out there, but: europe is finished, iran has the bomb and control over all northern africa/middle east, israel has a mass exodus and folds, the US refuses to convert to islam and is the only real power left in the world with the exception of the chinese, not under islam. we could have/should have supported the state of israel but we did not………. this bit of real estate was the only effective stop between islamic control and freedom.
Jan 4, 2009 - 7:34 am 57. tanstaafl:From the Commentary magazine piece…
“Hamas, then, is legally to blame for all, or nearly all, injuries and deaths of both Israelis and Palestinians.”
Jan 4, 2009 - 9:54 am 58. Joseph McNulty:The problem is that Hamas is winning the international opinion fight. Palestinian-ism is now a mainstream phenomenon. The Palestinian headscarf is an increasingly common fashion item. Look at the article in Newsweek that says its time for Obama to get tought WITH ISRAEL. People are marching WITH terrorists who have no intention of finding a two-state solution. The ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel, preceeded by American “even-handedness.” I’ve ofen said that this would be a different country when the number of Muslilms exceeded the number of Jews (as it recently did). Why we have allowed the immigration of Muslims in such numbers (a Fifth Column undoubtedly) is beyond me. Jew-hatred goes back to the Koran and predates the founding of Israel by 1,200 years. I hope that Olmert is making plans for the self-sufficiency of Israel in weapons. Thinking that the United States will be a steadfast friend is putting unwarranted weight on a fragile reed. Nixon , the man who cracked antisemetic jokes, but saved Israel in 1973, is truly dead.
Jan 4, 2009 - 5:55 pm 59. Slobodan P.:No American Jew has a right to judge Israel. Only those who live there can judge, and they do, with many voices and opinions. J-street is to the left of Naturei Karta, which is a real accomplishment. What can J-Street do for encore?
Jan 4, 2009 - 10:38 pm 60. JL:Dear moderator. You don’t have to approve my comment if you don’t want to. Just delete it. It’s not that important to me. The human Psyche probably doesn’t have anything to do with how humans behave anyway. Especially not primal emotions like fear and anger. No, no. They most likely behave rationally and in accordance with the political correctness of websites like Pajamas Media. In the unlikely event that peace in the middle east evolves like a miracle from heaven, I’ll post an “I told you so” next year.
Jan 5, 2009 - 12:33 am 61. Martin Berman-Gorvine:Excellent column, Ron, but please remember that people and organizations like J Street must not be dignified with the honorable name of liberal. Liberals are people like Bobby Kennedy who was murdered by a Palestinian terrorist for his stalwart support of Israel.
Jan 5, 2009 - 8:37 am 62. fred:Larsen @52,
Yes, I know the distinction you laid out. It’s called the Dhimma, and only “people of the Book” are allowed that option. Yes, they must submit to the crushing strictures of the Dhimma and pay a heavy jizya (poll tax)with humiliation. That is what is called for in the Qur’an and in Sharia Law.
But I will not submit to the Cult of Satan. I will not acknowledge its supremacy, as it is blasphemous and monstrous. Allah is not our God. “Allah” – I am convinced of this – is really Satan. Muhammad was in thrall to the Devil. And to the Devil and all his fallen angels with the damned reprobates he has returned and with forever.
Jan 6, 2009 - 5:28 pm 63. Another View:To All;
Israel sympathizers. That in it self is a oxy moron. You obviously are using the arguement Britain won the war against the Ottamans as your bases for there was no Palestine. That is where you start your ignorance. You must first understand Western borders and maps are only so relavant. These people were there and they had established commuities. You believe the lies that the land was barren. These people used and had access to the resources they needed.
The truth is is Israel is just a zionist apartheid state.People of the Yewish faith were the minority prior to Ben-Gurion. It has nothing to do with religion. Its all about Sephardi,Ashkenazi and Khazar stuff.If It was about Judaism the face of Israel would be much more diverse and tolerant. Ever since you had that paper British Agreement(Balfour agreement) you have been slaughtering natives and semites. It is human nature to resist oppression. They are indeed freedom fighters.
Jan 6, 2009 - 7:24 pm 64. Larsen E Whipsnade:Fred, we’re in agreement except you skipped the final decision: Israel has to take a position to either (a) submit, or (b) fight. Which is correct?
Jan 6, 2009 - 10:49 pm 65. georgiebhoy:Prior to this assault in the last 8 years 14 Israelis have been killed by attacks from the Gaza Strip and more than 5,000 Palestinians killed by Israel. Last year no rockets are fired from the West Bank and 45 Palestinians were killed by Israel. No moral equivalence there.
Jan 16, 2009 - 7:18 pm