44 Comments

1. Pajamas Media » Why Israel Must Defeat Hamas:

[...] the entire story here [...]

Jan 15, 2009 - 4:39 pm 2. Leatherneck:

As long as Haas, and other CFR secular humanists believe man is basicly good inside, America would do well to throw any CFR member out of office.

They are a curse to this once great nation. Individuals that think like Ronald Reagan is what we need. Instead, the country votes in Marxists, and San Fransicko values.

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:36 pm 3. fmw:

How come the last ALL comments have been deleted?

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:39 pm 4. Pat J:

Take a deep breath Pajamalistas. I actually agree with Ron here. Hamas has to be utterly destroyed. If only that could be done without killing innocent men, women and children. But that’s the challenge. Hamas militants don’t wear a big H on their chest to make things easy.

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:40 pm 5. Michael:

Take a load off and read some satire on Israel beating the crap out of Hamas: http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/01/un-begs-israel-to-stop-killing.html

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:36 pm 6. AXN:

Well said and so right. More people need to realise the real goals of Hamas and Hezbollah, that is, that they want to exterminate Jews and destroy Israel. And that worse still, they believe it to be a special blessing that is pleasing to their god and will do anything to achieve it, including using their own as shields and bombs and lying to the media.

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:45 pm 7. e:

Its going to need to take 2 things to destroy Hamas.

1. Social belief that Hamas and its goals are bad and only hurting Palestinians. A flourishing Iraq that is friendly with Israel is one part, the other is cracking down on madrasas and the mouthpieces that teach that suicide bombings are good.
2. Protection of Palestinians against Hamas. Hamas kills more Palestinians directly than they do Israelis. Support the PLO? Dead. Gonna have to take an imposed police state to do that. Turkey might be able to help as fellow Muslims who have a decent fighting force that follows laws. But Turkey doesn’t want to get their people killed in that mess.

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:58 pm 8. e:

Oh, and killing the terrorists directly does work, at least in the short term. Its just not the end all solution. Which is the suicide-bombing, rocket-launching civilian-targeting cowards will be shot or otherwise subdued by their own people long before they get a chance to kill somebody’s mother.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:05 pm 9. Yehuda:

Israel left Gaza in 2005, giving Palestinians the chance to run their own lives. Despite this, more than 6300 rockets and mortars have been fired into Israel since then.The terrorist organizations work out of the Palestinian population centers and cynically exploit them, so the responsibility for Palestinian civilians getting hurt rests on their shoulders. Israel, for its part directs its activity at terrorist elements and does its utmost to refrain from harming the innocent.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:32 pm 10. David Thomson:

“Richard N. Haass, president of The Council Foreign Relations”

Richard N. Haass regretfully represents the intellectual “moderate middle.” He most assuredly possesses the minimum of one PhD and an overall resume guaranteed to impress the general public. Hass is supposedly not a Daily Kos blogger. What explains his failure to comprehend the nihilism embodied in Palestinian Jihadism? Does he truly believe that these individuals wish to live in peace with Jews? Should we also assume that Haass’s views are widely shared by those closely advising Barack Obama?

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:43 pm 11. Marc Boyd:

Hamas must be totally defeated. If that means also killing their wives and children who they indoctrinate to kill, so be it. It will be on their heads, not the Israelis. Hamas has shown no redeeming qualities at all. Go Israel!

Iran next.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:54 pm 12. subanindro:

Up date info :
Israel tak ingin berperang lebih lama di Gaza. Militer Israel sudah merasakan pahitnya perang. Menghadapi para pejuang Palestina, yang terus bertahan menghadapi serangan missil dari udara, darat dan laut. Sebagian militer Israel sudah kehilangan disiplin. (Yerusalem Post, 15/1/2009). Diantara anggota tentara Israel sudah ada yang melakukan desersi. Mereka tak sanggup menghadapi perang di Gaza, dan harus membunuhi orang-orang sipil, anak-anak, wanita dan orang tua.

Dalam pertemuannya ‘Trioka’ (Perdana Menteri Olmer, Menlu Tzipi Livni, dan Menhan Ehud Barak), mendiskusikan, bagaimana caranya melakukan ‘exit’ (keluar) dari Gaza? ‘Trioka’ itu menyetujui mengirim Deputi Menhan Israel, Amos Gilad, ke Cairo, bertemu dengan sejumlah pejabat di Cairo, menyusun formulasi ‘perdamaian’, agar Israel segera dapat keluar dari Gaza. Israel, nampaknya menyetujui formula yang dibuat Mesir, dan ‘gencatan senjata’ itu, yaitu dimulai dengan Hamas menyerahkan Kopral Gilad Shalid ke Mesir, sebagai pra kondisi bagi terciptanya perundingan gencatan senjata. Namun, fihak Hamas belum sepenuhnya menerima formula yang dibuat Mesir. Meskipun, nampaknya telah diklaim bahwa, wakil Hamas Dr.Bardawel, dapat menyetujui isi formula gencatan senjata.

Menteri Pertahanan Ehud Barak telah membeberkan rencana gencatan senjata kepada Olmert dan Tzipi, sebaliknya Olmert dan Tzipi, ingin perang dilanjutkan sampai tujuan perang itu tercapai. Olmert, nampaknya percaya, tujuan perang akan dapat terwujud. Olmert mendapatkan dukungan dari Kepala Shin Bet (Dinas Keamanan Dalam Negeri Israel), Yuval Diskin, dan Kepala Mossad, Meir Dagan. Sedangkan, Menhan Ehud Barak, menyatakan bahwa tujuan perang sudah tercapai. Silang pendapat antara ‘Trioka’, menimbulkan ketidakpastian di Israel, hal ini akan terjadi seperti ketika perang di Lebanon. Para pemimpin politik dan militer Israel tidak mencapai kesepakatan dalam mengambil keputusan perang.

Nampaknya, ‘Trioka’ (Olmert, Tzipi Livni, Ehud Barat), masih menunggu kepastian tentang nasib Kopral Gilad Shalid dari pejabat intelijen Mesir, sebelum mengambil keputusan. Di sisi lain, Menlu Israel, Tzipi Livni melakukan negosiasi dengan Deputi Menlu AS, Ahahron Abramowitz, yang bertujuan mencapai kerjasama Israel-AS, menangani penyeludupan senjata dari perbatasan Mesir ke Gaza. Tzipi memaksa kepada Ahahron agar perjanjian antara Israel-AS dapat ditandatangani sebelum Condoleeza Rice meninggalkan Deparlu AS.

Ada keinginan kuat yang menjadi tujuan gencatan senjata bagi Israel, yang diakomodasi Mesir dalam formula gencatan senjata itu, pertama Hamas harus melucuti senjatanya, ini sebagai rencana menciptakan keamanan Israel. Kedua, kerjasama militer antara Israel, Mesir, Amerika, dan Otoritas Paelstina (PA), guna menghentikan penyelundupan senjata, baik lewat darat atau laut. Sehingga, tidak ada lagi ancaman keamanan bagi Zionis-Israel. Ketiga, mengembalikan Otoritas Palestina (PA),yang dipimpin Presiden Mahmud Abbas, mengambil alih pemerintahan di Gaza. Gaza tidak lagi dibawah kontrol Hamas.

Para pemimpin Israel memberikan perhatian penuh tentang adanya penyelundupan senjata, yang mereka anggap sebagai ancaman yang sangat serius bagi keamanan Israel. Selama ini, memang belum termasuk menjadi prioritas utama Israel, terkait dengan penyelundupan senjata dari Mesir. Meskpun, selama ini Mesir menutup rapat-rapat perbatasannya.

Israel juga sudah melobby para pejabat Keamanan AS, termasuk dengan Menhan AS, yang baru Robert Gate, untuk mendapatkan jaminan keamanan dari AS, khususnya berkaitan dengan penyelundupan senjata dari Mesir ke Gaza. Para pejabat Israel, melalui Menlu Tzipi Livni, meminta komitment Menhan AS, Robert Gate, dan Menlu AS yang baru, Hallary Clilnton, agar kerjasama dibidang intelijen dan militer, guna mengakhiri penyeludupan senjata, dan dapat digunakan para ‘teroris’, yang mengancam keamanan Israel menjadi sebuah keputusan politik antara Israel-AS.

Kemungkinan perang belum segera berakhir. Kemampuan militer Israel dalam perang di Gaza akan diuji. Israel menurut Menhan Ehud Barak, tujuan perang yang dilakukan Israel sudah tercapai. Yaitu mereduksi kekuatan militer Hamas, dan menghancurkan seluruh infrastrukturnya. Tapi, sampai hari ini belum ada tanda-tanda bahwa para pejuang Hamas mengerek bendera ‘putih’. Sekarang, kekuatan-kekuatan yang terlibat dalam perang di Gaza sedang berhitung, termasuk Israel ingin melakukan ‘exit’ (keluar) dari Gaza, dan menunggu momentum, yang mereka inginkan. Para pemimpin Zionis-Israel sedang berjudi dengan nasib dan masa depan mereka.

Adakah mereka akan berhasil keluar dari Gaza, dan tanpa harus kehilangan muka, serta acaman akan eksistensi mereka sebagai sebuah entitas politik di masas depan? Kehancuran di Gaza yang massif, dan korban yang jumlahnya sangat besar, menyebabkan rejim Zionis-Israel telah menjadi musuh seluruh umat manusia. Jika, Israel memenangkan perang di Gaza, tapi sejatinya Israel telah kalah, akibat kejahatan yang mereka ciptakan sendiri. (15/01/09)

……******………..
Israel no longer want to fight in Gaza. Israel has military experience pahitnya war. Facing the Palestinian combatants, who continue to endure the missil attacks from the air, land and sea. Some Israeli military have lost their discipline. (Jerusalem Post, 15/1/2009). Among the members of the army of Israel has been conducting desertion. They do not afford the war in Gaza, and must membunuhi those civilians, children, women and elderly.

In meeting ‘Trioka’ (Prime Minister Olmer, Menlu Tzipi Livni, Ehud Barak and Menhan), discuss, how to make ‘exit’ (out) from the Gaza? ‘Trioka’ it agreed to send Deputy Menhan Israel, Amos Gilad, to Cairo, met with a number of officials in Cairo, preparing the formulation of ‘peace’, so that Israel could soon exit from Gaza. Israel, appears to agree that formula is made of Egypt, and the ‘ceasefire’ is, namely starting with the Hamas Kopral Gilad Shalid to Egypt, as a pre-condition for the cease-fire negotiations. However, Hamas fihak not fully accept the formula that made Egypt. Although, seemingly has claimed that Hamas representatives Dr.Bardawel, can approve the content of formula ceasefire.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak has plans unfold ceasefire to Olmert and Tzipi, Olmert and Tzipi rather, want the war to resume the war that the goal is reached. Olmert, appears to believe the war will be the goal can be realized. Olmert the support of the Head of Shin Bet (Office of Security Affairs of Israel), Yuval Diskin, and the Mossad, Meir Dagan. Meanwhile, Menhan Ehud Barak, stated that the purpose of the war has been reached. Cross between the ‘Trioka’, cause uncertainty in Israel, this will happen as the war in Lebanon. The political and military leaders of Israel does not reach an agreement in the decision of war.

It appears that, ‘Trioka’ (Olmert, Tzipi Livni, Ehud West), still waiting for certainty about the fate Kopral Gilad Shalid intelligence officials from Egypt, before making a decision. On the other hand, Menlu Israel, Tzipi Livni to negotiate with U.S. Deputy Menlu, Ahahron Abramowitz, which aims to reach Israel-US cooperation, handle penyeludupan weapons from Egypt to the Gaza border. Tzipi forced to Ahahron that the agreement between Israel, the U.S. could be signed before leaving Condoleeza Rice Deparlu U.S..

There is a strong desire to become a destination for Israel cease-fire, which Egypt diakomodasi formula in the cease-fire, Hamas must first remove senjatanya, as this plan creates the security of Israel. Second, the military cooperation between Israel, Egypt, United States, and Paelstina Authority (PA), to stop the smuggling of weapons, whether through land or sea. So, there is no longer a threat to the security-Zionis Israel. Third, return the Palestinian Authority (PA), which is led by President Mahmud Abbas, took over the government in Gaza. Gaza is not under Hamas control.

The leaders of Israel to give full attention on the smuggling of weapons, which they consider as a very serious threat to the security of Israel. During this time, it has not been a priority, including Israel, is associated with smuggling weapons from Egypt. Meskpun, Egypt during this seal perbatasannya.

Israel also has melobby U.S. security officials, including Menhan with the U.S., the new Robert Gate, to get security guarantees from the U.S., especially related to the smuggling of weapons from Egypt to Gaza. Israeli officials, through Menlu Tzipi Livni, asking the U.S. commitment Menhan, Robert Gate, and the new U.S. Menlu, Hallary Clilnton, so that cooperation in intelligence and military, to end the penyeludupan weapons, and can be used for ‘terrorist’, which threaten the security of Israel become a political decision between the Israel-USA.

The possibility of war has not ended soon. The military capability of Israel in the war in Gaza will be tested. Israel Menhan according to Ehud Barak, the purpose of the war Israel has been reached. Namely mereduksi Hamas military forces, and destroyed the entire infrastructure. But, to this day there are no signs that the Hamas combatants hoist flag ‘white’. Now, forces involved in the war in Gaza are calculate, including Israel want to do ‘exit’ (out) from Gaza, and wait momentum, which they want. The leaders of Israel are Zionis-gamble with the fate and their future.

Will they be successful exit from Gaza, and without having to lose face, and will acaman their existence as a political entity in the future masas? Destruction in the Gaza massif, and the number of victims is very large, the regime Zionis-Israel has become the enemy of all mankind. If, Israel won the war in Gaza, but Israel has sejatinya less, due to the crime they create themselves. (15/1/09)

Jan 16, 2009 - 1:31 am 13. Arthur Nankervis:

Why is the Gaza Strip such a hot potato for Egypt and now even Israel, as the Israeli government has mentioned that they do not want to re-occupy that territory. How can the Palestinians occupying the Gaza Strip survive? Being neither agriculturally or industrially minded, nor with the will to develop a peace-based society / economy, there is little hope other than to accept the discards and handouts from misguided Western nations who for some reason, see something in the Palestinian psych that would suggest the setting up of a peaceful, normalised Palestinian state. It will never happen.

Ron writes a good precis of the ongoing problems that confront Israel, problems that concerned Western nations must also face. Both Ron and Pat J are correct in their summations that “Hamas has to be utterly destroyed” before there could be even the slightest hint of peace in the Gaza Strip. But, who or what is Hamas? or is it even worth worrying about Hamas as we perceive it today? We have seen that they are no match for the highly trained, highly disciplined, well-equipped and well lead IDF. I therefore, begin to wonder: What is the purpose of Hama?. On the surface, they initially looked as if they were a dangerous threat, but on closer examination, one can see that they are poorly equipped, poorly led and in the face of a thoroughly professional army, poorly motivated. I think that if we take a look at who is supplying Hamas we can begin to understand their very existence and the ulterior motives of their masters. To my way of thinking, the only purpose of Hamas is to keep Israel on edge and divert Israel’s attention away from the more ominous threats coming out of Iran or Syria and to a lesser degree, Lebanon and Jordan. I definitely think that in the way that the IDF has handled itself in this difficult situation, must have those nations who have notions of “destroying Israel as a nation ‘rethinking the equation’.

Why is the Gaza Strip such a hot potato for Egypt and now even Israel, as the Israeli government has mentioned that they do not want to re-occupy that territory. How can the Palestinians occupying the Gaza Strip survive? Being neither agriculturally or industrially minded, nor with the will to develop a peace-based society / economy, there is little hope other than to accept the discards and handouts from misguided Western nations who for some reason, see something in the Palestinian psych that would suggest the setting up of a peaceful, normalised Palestinian state. It will never happen.

Jan 16, 2009 - 2:46 am 14. Arthur Nankervis:

Sorry for ‘doubling-up’ on the 1st & last paragraphs

Arthur

Jan 16, 2009 - 2:50 am 15. gboisjo:

Ethnocentricity or the lack of objectivity in a person to understand what motivates a person in a culture not there own. When 5 year olds are being taught the beauty of becoming suicide bomders and the Haass types talk about Hamas tolerance you have to wonder what planet are these idiots on.

Jan 16, 2009 - 4:01 am 16. Scott:

The problem is Hamas and no amount of talking to them will resolve the issues confronting peace in the middle east.

I mean how do you talk to someone who is committed to your total destruction?

And as pointed out in the article, that is the difference between Hamas and the IRA. The IRA was not bent on the total and utter destruction of English society.

Unfortunately though, more and more “useful fools” are starting to trot out the “we talked to the IRA and it worked” line. It seems the simple fact that the reason the IRA wanted to talk in the first place is that they had been militarily defeated by the British Army.

Mailman

Jan 16, 2009 - 4:46 am 17. Hindu:

The terrorists must be defeated but personally, my gung-ho zeal for Israel’s success has been tempered after Olmert humiliated Condi IN PUBLIC – instead of writing about the conflict in his memoirs, if he must.

Who do these guys think they are, insulting America’s top diplomat? Reserve that arrogance for the U.N.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:06 am 18. Paul - Indiana:

Pat J, a big ‘C’ on their chests would be more appropriate.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:19 am 19. Ken Besig:

Yes Israel should and even could defeat Hamas, but she almost certainly won’t. Indeed, at this very moment, the Olmert, Livni, Barak government of Israel is desperately trying to put together a phony cease fire which will leave Hamas Iranian proxy in power in the Gaza Strip with most of it’s military forces intact and ready to resume their insane and bloody jihad on Israel at the earliest possible date.
Why Israel’s government is doing something so obviously stupid and dangerous no one can explain, not even native born Israeli Jews whose families have lived here for generations. And it isn’t just this Israeli government either; since 1995 and the Rabin election, every Israeli government in power, whether Left or Nationalist, has bent over backwards to lose every political, diplomatic, and military confrontation with the Palestinians and the greater Arab world. And in doing so they have weakened Israel and made our existence and security even more precarious. Indeed, the most recent attempt at national suicide, the Ariel Sharon unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, commonly called the Disengagement, is now recognized by everyone everywhere on the political map as the single most important step in putting Hamas into power in the Gaza Strip, and thus the real impetus for the latest Israeli military reprisals there. The upcoming cowardly and defeatist Israeli government imposed cease fire there will only make things worse for Israel, the Palestinians, and the Middle East, mark my words.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:30 am 20. Perry:

The only road to peace is not through negotiations with HAMAS, who are terrorists bent on Israel’s destruction (see HAMAS’ charter). The road to peace is through the the destruction of HAMAS, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa Brigades, etc. “Destruction” means killing them until those remaining have no hope, no ambition, and no dreams of the anihilation of Israel. Until those remaining surrender and accept that Israel will exist forever.

No war – and this is war – was ever won by negotiation. A war is won when one side defeats the other and forces it into submission.

It’s them or us. Choose.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:30 am 21. David Thomson:

“Why Israel’s government is doing something so obviously stupid and dangerous no one can explain…”

I think I can explain. Far too many Israelis are guilt tripped white people. They feel uneasy fighting “dark skin victims of oppression.” This nonsense would not be occurring if the Palestinian radicals possessed blond hair and blue eyes. Race guilt threatens the very survival of Western Civilization.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:40 am 22. tino:

Mashaal: We won’t accept truce conditions Hamas politburo chief speaks before Arab leaders in Qatar, says organization will continue resistance until Israel withdraws troops, opens crossings, and ’stops its aggression’; Assad calls Arab peace initiative with Israel ‘dead’

Iran: It is not feasible for Israel to live Ahmadinejad says Gaza op ‘has been great lesson for all, showing absolute defeat of Zionist regime’

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:11 am 23. Dodgeblogium » War Crimes in Gaza…:

[...] But not by who you are told is doing it… [...]

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:15 am 24. tino:

Far too many Israelis are guilt tripped white people.

-Ashkenazim (about 38% of the national population)

- Mizrahim and Sephardim (about 38% of the national population)

- Indian Jews (about 1% of the national population)

- Beta Israel/Falash Mura of Ethiopia (about 2% of the national population

- In Israel there are approximately 300,000 citizens with Jewish ancestry who are not Jewish (mostly immigrants from the former USSR)

- Arab
- Bedouin
- Druze
- Armenians
- Circassians

Small populations of other groups reside in Israel:

- 2,500 Lebanese (35,000-100,000 descendents)
- Christians from Romania and Bulgaria, or, Romani
- Ethiopian Christians
- Samaritans

Jan 16, 2009 - 3:36 pm 25. Joe Fattal:

I have a better explanation. Israel will fight you a conventional war with a similar opponent, and Israel will probably win it in just few days. Israel now is fighting a guerrilla type warfare, as the one they lost in Lebanon against Hezbolah. Don’t look at the collateral damages that Israel inflict with its air force in Beirut, and now in Gaza. That a desperation maneuvering on the part of the Israelis. They know if they entered the city center they will face heavy casualties on their side. So in the begining of both wars , Israel will give us that fireworks display. And, at the end of the battle, Israel will have lost the war. Also Israel need to anderstand that they the one that need to tolerate their neighbors, Hamas, and whoever is representing the Palestinians. And for them not to forget that they are occupying Palestinian lands, not the other way around. Something like that Israel will never understand, they are too very well equipted with the latest arsenal to discuss whatever they want to discuss. And if that fails they have the weapons to let the Palestinians know who’s the boss in the area.

Jan 16, 2009 - 4:38 pm 26. georgiebhoy:

You think Israel feels sorry for the ‘dark skin victims of oppression”? Just look at the comments on Israelnationalnews.com and think again.

Imagine you wanted to, or better still needed to, kill a man up close but were faced with a line of people blocking you, a one year old, a five year old, a twelve year old, a pregnant woman, a grandmother, a teenage boy and a guy in his thirties. They don’t know they are blocking you but would you shoot each one after the other? You only want to clear a path and do not nessarily mean to kill them but more than one shot may be required as your gun is pretty inaccurate even up close, a shot to the elbow, the foot, the shoulder the face the torso until they are each in turn no longer an obstacle? Then you shoot the man. Would you then do it again when you found that this was the wrong man?
If there were genuine concern about casualties there would be no artillery, limited use of ’surgical’ air strikes and no phosphorous. At least no cluster bombs have dropped yet.

The US army which loves its firepower didn’t need these weapons to pacify Sadr city and it did not force the other into submission. Destroy Hamas and another will rise. So why the killing?

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:34 pm 27. myth buster:

Why the killing? Because Hamas must be destroyed. They pushed Israel too far, and now they must be totally destroyed. Not one Hamas agent should be allowed to live free. They will do whatever it takes to protect their people by destroying Hamas, even if human shields die in the process.

Jan 16, 2009 - 10:32 pm 28. David Thomson:

“Far too many Israelis are guilt tripped white people.

-Ashkenazim (about 38% of the national population)

- Mizrahim and Sephardim (about 38% of the national population)

- Indian Jews (about 1% of the national population)”

I am very well aware that there are many non-white Israeli Jews. However, this not how the politically correct leftists perceive the overall situation. When everything is said and done—the Israelis are mostly a bunch of white people crapping on the dark skinned Palestinians. This is also the case regarding the “white imperialist United States.

Jan 17, 2009 - 12:45 am 29. DougS:

[21] The question you answered is, why is the Israeli government doing what it’s doing, not why does the international/transnational left believe as it does. And it seems that Cast Lead has 90+% support among the Israeli people, and it’s the domestic poll numbers that Olmert and his cabinet will listen to.

Israel is considering a cease-fire this weekend because they’re running out of targets. As one commenter pointed out in Wretchard’s latest thread, the IDF has acquitted itself pretty well here. Hamas has not succeeded in inflicting casualties on the IDF to any significant degree, while Hamas’ leadership, rank and file and infrastructure has been wrecked. Has Hamas been defeated once and for all? Perhaps not, but this has not been Lebanon ‘06 redux.

[13] As to why Israel is hitting Hamas instead of more capable enemies, I would suggest that this is a strategic feature, not a bug. Start with the easiest task, deal with it, and then maybe the harder ones will become more tractable. Robert Kaplan has already suggested that this is a probing attack against Iran. The tanks are rolling into Gaza, but like Argus, they are looking in various directions at once to see what Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are all doing.

Jan 17, 2009 - 2:56 am 30. gboisjo:

Hey Joe, you talk about occupied lands like all jews did was occupy arab lands in 1948. Remember Joe why so many Jews went to Israel in the first place. Our Euro brethren were baking them in ovens Joe and using there skin for lamps. If you have not seen Schindlers List Joe I suggest you do. If you have seen it watch it again. Around 1948 many Jews fled Europe and went back to Israel which is theres not the arabs.

Jan 17, 2009 - 4:19 am 31. Alex Bensky:

goisjo, you repeat a mantra that is true but not fully explanative. Close to half the population of Israel are Jews from Arab lands who were forced out after 1958, leaving all their property behind and, oddly enough, in numbers roughly equal to the number of Arabs who left Israel. None of them is in a refugee camp today, of course. Israel is the result not only of European sins but also Arab ones.

The problem with people like Haas…well, one of their problems…is cognitive narcissism, the inability to understand that other people think differently and have different motivations. Curiously this syndrome is rife among multiculturalists, who assert that they respect all cultures (other than their own) but seem incapable of understanding that not everyone thinks like them.

I have no doubt that virtually any dispute I might have with Haas personally could be settled satisfactorily if both of us showed a willing spirit of compromise. He deals with Hamas’s open, notorious, and constant statements that it does not seek and will not accept any compromise with Israel by simply refusing to accept it. Thereby he deals with the difficulty of accepting the situation as it is by wishing away the problems.

Hamas could indeed come around to a reasonable modus operandi with Israel. It could happen. It also could happen that Lucy Lawless is about to ring my door bell and ask if she can come up and get out of these wet clothes, but I’m not expecting it.

Jan 17, 2009 - 6:55 am 32. ricpic:

This thing will go on forever unless the Israelis can get past the notion that a civilized nation doesn’t do such things in the 21st century: such things being the utter annihilation of Hamas and if needs be every last Palestinian in the Gaza Strip. Why not?! When your own children are threatened down to the very last one OF COURSE you do such things — or YOUR people are annihilated..

Jan 18, 2009 - 1:53 pm 33. Al:

APARTHEID ISRAEL

Just as the racists who put native Africans behind barbed wire, stole their lands from them and acted like they were the chosen ones eventually fell, so will the Zionists.

The days of Apartheid are over. And racist, violent states like Israel are destined to fall.

Jan 19, 2009 - 10:52 am 34. Ava:

Defeat Hamas?

Israel can continue its killing rampage for as long as it desires. It can murder every last member of Hamas. But the Palestinians’ struggle for freedom will continue. It will just be called something else. You can break their bodies. But you can’t break their souls. Shame on Israel for doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis once did to them. It is a perverse and disturbing development.

Do you see now why your Foreign Minister was called a terrorist in New York?

Jan 19, 2009 - 10:58 am 35. William:

Israel pulls out of Gaza the day before The Great One is inaugurated. Do I sense a lack of trust?

Jan 19, 2009 - 2:50 pm 36. SGT Ted:

Ava,

The Palestinians are NOT fighting for freedom. They are fighting to conduct genocide of the Jews and impose a totalitarian Islamic deathcult terrorist rule over anyone they can. They HATE freedom, and think that it is against Islam which is why they keep their women as slaves to men and their men as slaves to their deathcult moon god. But what do I know? I just repeat what the Palestinian and Hamas leadership tell us about every day. “Freedom fighters” what useful idiocy.

Jan 19, 2009 - 3:05 pm 37. Peter the Bubblehead:

33. Al wrote:
APARTHEID ISRAEL
And racist, violent states like Israel are destined to fall.

Peter asks: Al, have you ever been to the Middle East? Have you ever physically visited Israel or any Arab country. Because if you did, you might actually learn that Israel is the most democratic and fair of all countries in that region. Try expressing freedom of religion or freedom of expression in any Muslim dominated country in the Middle East. You won’t get very far.

Jan 19, 2009 - 6:34 pm 38. Peter the Bubblehead:

Hey, Sarge, ever get the idea that all those people on these threads who are defending Hamas and villainizing Israel have never been out in the real world?

Jan 19, 2009 - 6:36 pm 39. Pat J:

Has anyone heard from Joe the Plumber lately? Or has the joke run its course?

Jan 19, 2009 - 7:25 pm 40. Sylvie:

“Jews are a curse to anyone who lives next to them” says Islam. Has anyone ever heard of the Jewish people today waging a war against any nation except the one against Arabs who call themselves ‘Palestinians” because these Arabs want the whole of the Jewish State completely destroyed and an Islamic one in its place. The ongoing Isrsali/Palestinian Conflict now taking place in the Mideast is only one tiny part of that ‘War on Terror’ sometimes known as ‘Islam v. the West’ when Muslims believe that ultimately the world should become one great Islamic Universe with a Caliphate Government and Shariya Laws ruling. God forbid for the Christians and Jewish Infidels if that should ever come to pass. The Third Great War is yet to come more horrific than any before…….

Jan 20, 2009 - 12:09 am 41. Sylvie:

To AVA @ 34. Are you saying ‘Shame on Israel for doing to the Palestinians – who are by the way simply Arabs adopting the name of being ‘Palestinians’ because they wish to claim land in the region of Palestine once known as the Homeland of the Jews namely Judea/Israel until the Romans renamed the Area ‘Palestine’… simply because no other Arab Country wants these so-called Palestinians. In addition the Arab League Resolution of 1950 disallows any Arab Government from giving ‘Palestinian Refugees’ Arab Citizenship. Therefore the ‘Proposed Palestinian State’ falls upon the shoulders of Israel. Furthermore if you can say that the Jewish people are doing to the so-called Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews, then you must have some imagination when after Eight years of accepting Palestinian rockets and mortars the Israelis finally waged war on the Palestinian Hamas entity and even won the battle against them only a few days ago weakening the Hamas deterrant tremendously… but in no way sending six million Arabs into gas chanmbers nor shot them one by one when they fell into graves they built with their own hands. This war between the so-called Palestinians and the Israelis was a conflict when Palestinians shamelessly used civilians and littlc children as human shields and fodder for the very first bombardment from Israel. Consequently and by the same token it would be true to say ‘Shame on the Palestinian Hamas Regime’ who wish only to destroy the State of Israel as their Charter Commands so as to create an Islamic one in its place. Playing God is nobody’s business but that of the Almighty Above and the Arabs should know this by now.

Jan 20, 2009 - 8:06 am 42. georgiebhoy:

27. myth buster:

Why the killing? Because Hamas must be destroyed. They pushed Israel too far, and now they must be totally destroyed. Not one Hamas agent should be allowed to live free. They will do whatever it takes to protect their people by destroying Hamas, even if human shields die in the process.

Must be destroyed, whatever it takes, not allowed to live free, even if (innocents) die in the process. You have lost all humanity.

Jan 22, 2009 - 11:34 am 43. georgiebhoy:

32. ricpic:

This thing will go on forever unless the Israelis can get past the notion that a civilized nation doesn’t do such things in the 21st century: such things being the utter annihilation of Hamas and if needs be every last Palestinian in the Gaza Strip. Why not?!

No humanity. Threats cannot kill. A diplomatic discourse will be the only solution. So why the killing?

Jan 22, 2009 - 11:39 am 44. Oscar the Grump:

georgiebhoy
Are you hiding in this blog? Come on out and play baby. Let’s go back a little over 40 years. World War II was raging. Right? Our country carpet bombed the major cities of Germany killing lots of civilians. The German army was not in those cities: but, they were attacked anyway. In Japan we fire bombed Tokyo and other major cities. We caused horrible civilian casualties in both theaters of war.
In both cases we were out for the annihilation of both adversaries. Civilians were targeted along with military. General LeeMay even expressed the thought that our actions were war crimes. Guess what, the world shrugged and didn’t care. It was considered a necessary evil.
Yet, you insist on holding Israel to a higher standard than the world held us to.
Would you cry out even one peep if it was a reversed situation? Or is this just disguised anti-Semetism?
By the way, don’t you think that diplomatic discourse is being tried. Hamas will not sit down to negotiate. It only makes bellicose demands. Had it negotiated, this all wouldn’t have happened.

Jan 22, 2009 - 3:02 pm

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