20 Comments

1. gallifet:

Ron,
Let’s see, first before writing or commenting on this you should try to learn something about firearms. Find a range and take a basic course. The two incidents that you are probably refering to occurred in Arizona and New Hampshire. These are states with ‘open carry’ laws. That is, it is legal to openly carry a firearm. They have a right to carry there, Ron. You bring about as much emotional baggage to this as the trolls. Guntards, Ron? You should review the guidelines above, oh, but that’s your name on the byline. When these thoughts flit through your head, calm yourself, and remember this little phrase…

We sleep peacfully in our beds because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

I didn’t say it wasn’t legal. It wasn’t an argument against guns or war. I said it was the behavior of cowardly exhibiitionist thugs. “Doing violence on our behalf” at town halls? At presidential apearances? On whose behalf? These are not war zones.

Aug 19, 2009 - 2:05 pm 2. Dick Simonds:

Hi Ron, I saw a brief news clip of someone carrying around an assault rifle strapped to his back and it became evident that he was looking for publicity. I didn’t know that such conduct was legal. You, Bob Metcalf, Richy Molyneaux and I used to play poker at your house in the ’60s. Take care.

Dick Simonds

Aug 19, 2009 - 2:11 pm 3. charlie finch:

Well, apparently the Secret Service approves of carrying guns (and ammunition!! as some reports have told us) out side the perimeter. I guess Squeaky Fromme would have gone free back in the Ford era under these bizarre rules. Is there a plot to do in Obama? I say this because none of the reports on the gun-toting have raised the obvious fact that publicity about these gun nutz might very probably incites a whole new generation of Arthur Bremers and John Hinckleys. Dare I say it, but Barack is too afraid to really lead, not speechify. He has got to drop the hammer like John Henry, without the collision!!!!!!!!!

Aug 19, 2009 - 2:47 pm 4. PFC Plato:

Good point.

There is a long history of the Right not being harassed or investigated when they make threats of violence against the government. Remember when Pat Robertson told his audience of military true believers that “someone ought to unleash an a-bomb beneath foggy bottom.” The FBI and secret service did nothing, but if any of us made such threats against the Department of State, we’d be under arrest. The disturbing thing about this recent incident is that the sign this crazy had (referencing the good that comes from spilling the blood of tyrants) coupled with a gun really is a threat. Screw these people hiding behind their guns and jesus; time to lock these dangerous nut jobs up.

Aug 19, 2009 - 2:47 pm 5. Brian B:

Ron,

I find it amusing that you see civility in hateful speech on a poster that you deemed of for children, but carrying a firearm is uncivil? Are the police uncivil, or armed private security guards. The rights of the people to freedom of expression and to keep and bear arms are enumerated in the constitution. I disagree with your personal view on the appropriateness of lawfully exercising one of those rights, but condemning the other. The hypocrisy is blatant.

How oblivious can you be? The post wasn’t aimed at lawful possession of guns but use of guns by thuggish cowards to intimidate unarmed citizens who have views they disagree with at public discussion forums. If you can’t see the difference get professional help. Btw, what you say about the posters and children makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe remedial reading hel too.

Aug 19, 2009 - 3:53 pm 6. Herb:

“So far I glean from the commenters here, it’s perfectly okay to deface Obama’s image with Hitler mustache, Nazi uniform, etc.”

Yes! I have some experience with some of the commenters here. Unprincipled partisans, most of them. It’s so annoying.

But what’s more annoying are the PJM contributors who pander to them. So I commend you for resisting the urge.

Aug 19, 2009 - 5:46 pm 7. goy:

Ron, you sound a little hysterical.

When you calm down, perhaps you could be a little more specific about which incident(s) you’re referring to. A response from some right winger might be forthcoming.

By gun-tards are you talking about a case involving someone illegally carrying a firearm? Or are you referring to some new type of concealed-carry mantyhose?

These brainless thugs, were they wearing SEIU garb? Plain clothes? Could you actually see the empty space where their brains used to be, or did they carry a sign?

Were the unnamed bullies ever actually identified?

Was someone putting innocent people in danger by, like, legally carrying a concealed handgun? Legally carrying a firearm in the open?

Was someone being terrorized? By the presence of a firearm? Like, oh, I don’t know, maybe this guy who wanted to avoid Kenneth Gladney’s fate?

Were there actual, authentic gun carrier freakazoids? Or were they the fake, plastic kind? It’s sometimes difficult to tell.

And finally, did you actually see an armed creep at one of these events, or was this just something reported by MSNBC?

Just curious: if the Right to Keep and Bear Arms doesn’t apply to public gatherings – especially those where there’s already been violence perpetrated against opponents of socialized medicine – then just exactly where DOES it apply, in your hysterical opinion?

Aug 19, 2009 - 9:08 pm 8. Frank:

Contrary to what you may believe, the Secret Service can do nothing about people outside of an appearance. Weather you like it or not it is our right to bear arms. To bad So sad.

Setting aside your semi-literate prose–the consistent inability of people so deleriously in love with their guns to show minimal literacy skills is cause for concern; try reading a book instead of going around exposing your gun–you miss the point. To repeat, for the last time, for those who lack reading comprehension, it’s not your right to appear at public discussion forums with guns, it’s your judgment

Aug 19, 2009 - 9:47 pm 9. David Thomson:

Since when are the adherents of Lyndon LaRouche Democrats right-wingers? These are the only individuals who are showing up at the rallies to “deface Obama’s image with Hitler mustache, Nazi uniform, etc.” This also includes the woman who made a fool of herself in front of Barney Frank. Those guys carrying guns are Ron Paul followers. They are legally entitled to do so—even though I believe they are being foolish. I doubt seriously if any of them voted for John McCain. Such people rarely feel any particular obligation to support Republican candidates. It is more accurate to describe them as anarchist-libertarian. Also, one of them is even an Afro-American. Ron Rosenbaum should be asking this question: why is the MSM reporting the news in such a way that he is left confused concerning the loyalties of those he is criticizing?

Aug 19, 2009 - 10:33 pm 10. David Thomson:

I literally found this item moments after posting my previous post. It is truly a mind blower:

http://tinyurl.com/ntgazj

MSNBC literally edited the film clip to hide the race of the guy carrying the gun. He is a black man! And yet, these so-called journalist continued with their spiel concerning the alleged white rage toward Barack Obama.

Aug 19, 2009 - 10:41 pm 11. James S.:

While I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, I’m not really sure what these people are trying to accomplish. Conservatives are successfully beating the Obama administration over the head with his own health care plan and these guys decide to distract the issue and talk about gun rights? The fact that they are carrying guns openly and legally sort of says we’ve already won that fight. At least it is not currently in dispute. I agree with you that they are not helping.

This being said, I don’t think they are as big a threat as you make them out to be. The Secret Service’s response to questions about them tends to back me up (they are kept outside the “perimeter” and are not considered a major threat). The fact that the guns are being carried openly actually makes them less of a threat rather than more. Considering that the Secret Service employs snipers to protect the President when he speaks outdoors, threatening him with a rifle or shotgun would be better considered “suicide by cop” than a threat to the President. Are they trying to intimidate someone? They probably see the weapon they are carrying as the equivalent of the signs other protester carry. Just because many of those on the left consider the mere presence of a gun a threat doesn’t mean the guy who is carrying it fully understands that it is considered threatening by some (But I’m not pointing it at anyone! And it isn’t loaded!) What they were doing is entirely legal. It just wasn’t very smart and certainly isn’t helping our side. The Left is known for its share of nutcase antics as well (Don’t tell me you haven’t shaken your head in frustration at some stuff the left has done). Thank God, in America, stupidity is still legal.

Aug 19, 2009 - 11:25 pm 12. robotech master:

So I guess its official…Ron Rosenbaum is retarded. I really don’t even know where to start with just how retarded this little rant is but I’ll try to get some highlights.

“But do you approve of carrying guns to town halls where children are present?”

THINK OF THE CHILDREN…. OMG those guns had kid seeking bullets in them at anytime they could have jumped out of their hostlers and ATTACKED THOSE POOR KIDS.

It is PERFECTLY LEGAL TO OPEN CARRY FIREARMS IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF US STATES. The question shouldn’t be “Whats wrong with these “gun carrier freakazoids.”".
The question should be “Whats wrong with the retarded ppl who are making a huge deal out of nothing.”

“Speak up in behalf of civility. Isn’t that a conservative value?” Yeah maybe… but rightwingers aren’t conservative… they’re constitutionalists among other things which have little to due with “conservative values”.

The open carry movement is getting stronger… deal with the fact that no only is it legal but it is to be considered taking back RIGHTS that ppl long ago forgot they had.

I could probably spend 5 hours writing about just how retarded this little piece is and coming with a “article” that is 50x longer just to cover some of the most blatant and retarded things said… but damn if it isn’t 3 in the morning and I’m tired. I’ll see if when I wake up I can find the motivation to tackle this mess.

Aug 20, 2009 - 12:36 am 13. robotech master:

Even obama thinks your retarded(not that he had a lot of room to say anything else).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/18/AR2009081803416.html

Aug 20, 2009 - 12:57 am 14. Banjo:

I also saw how MSNBC doctored the video to make a black man who had some reasonable things to say about the Constitutional right to bear arms become a fanatical white who was a threat to assassinate Obama. I knew NBC was in the tank for Obama because of the business interests of its corporate parent, but I had no idea things had gotten as bad as this.

Aug 20, 2009 - 8:48 am 15. Geo:

Anyone who believes it is okay to bring a loaded weapon to a political rally at which the president of the United States is present is insane.
I’m a gun owner and believe deeply in the 2nd ammendment, but I’m not stupid. What if a secret service agent shot and killed one of these gun-carriers? What if he thought they meant to do harm to the president, who they are there to protect? Whose fault would it be? I’d say the idiot that brought the gun to the rally deserved what he got and that the secret service agent was doing his job. For Christ sake, we don’t even allow people to smoke cigarettes indoors, but we let idiots bring assault rifles to political rallies. How f*%ked up is this country going to get!

Aug 20, 2009 - 11:50 am 16. flying squirrel:

Civility is it? Did you notice the demeanor of the gun toters? Were they wild eyed? Carrying Hitler pictures? Chanting “hey hey ho ho” ? The ones I saw and heard interviewed seemed (you never know) the picture of civility. Do you think anyone who carries a gun legally is a nut? A lot of people do. Guns are dangerous–liable to go off by themselves. Whenever they see guns–in the movies–somebody gets shot! They’re unamerican or should be. If the good people ever really get to fix things they will be!
Maybe the point is to show that Americans who own guns are just like you and me. Owning or carrying a gun does not make you…some kind of nut. (In spite of all the hype.)
That said, it is slightly off topic to sport your right to bear arms at a town hall on health care. We shouldn’t want to distract to the point of changing the subject. Why is it not totally off topic?
Because its no longer just about health care!
Its about the rights of the people to resist the takeover of every aspect of their-our- lives by intrusive ambitious government–to make us all, as in the august models of Europe, subjects rather than citizens. Fear of government power is not paranoia, it is the first principle of the American experience. “The government big enough to give you all you want, is big enough to take all you have.”
Health care. Everyone admits there are problems with it; but is it a crisis such as warrants this kind of all enveloping -in a holy rush-solution? Or is it a “crisis” that Rahm &co are not going to “waste” to expand their influence?
I, and many of my fellow citizens want health care reform but I do not trust this administration to do it. Why? Three reasons:
1. TARP: it was supposed to free up credit and solve the toxic asset problem. A trillion dollars later we got zombie banks beholden to the white house, the toxins still out there inhibiting investment (but the white house insiders know where they are.)
2. The stimulus aka porkulus. Supposed to save jobs, it was really about paying off political loyalists. Another trillion for the Party.
3. Auto bailout: help to industry?? It was about redistributing the wealth of industry from investor to union ownership. Dollars for votes.
All about expanding government power in American’s lives and the democratic party’s power in government.
Bait and switch is what its about, three strikes and you’re out.

“If they bring a knife we bring a gun, that’s the Chicago way.”
The American people have been pushed to respond in suit to the gangster tactics of this administration, if only to remind them who has the inherent right to carry guns and to dispose of governmental representatives and their policies.

Aug 20, 2009 - 2:10 pm 17. robotech master:

To 10. Geo

You do understand that they stayed well away from the area and the secret service how ZERO problems with them being there correct?

They never entered an area where they could have shot at obama nor attempted to do as such… please stop repeating propaganda about these events.

Aug 20, 2009 - 3:50 pm 18. DavidN:

I’ve been wondering since I saw the coverage of the rallies where the gun-toting people show up: do we *know* for a fact that all of these people actually knew of a political rally, and the President’s appearance? I’ve actually been unaware when either Pres. Obama or Bush was appearing locally, never mind the previous guys. It’s entirely possible, as far as I’m concerned, that they might have been walking down the street and run across the crowd.

As for the question of carrying a gun in public, Ron, you need to get some perspective. Here in California we’re pretty much discouraged from carrying a gun regardless of the situation, but in much of the rest of the country people do it naturally, all the time, with children around. They go to restaurants, one another’s houses, and the store, carrying a pistol or something, and there are few problems. For one thing, if everyone carries a gun, it seemingly gives bullies pause: you never know if the person you’re confronting is armed.

As for the respect issue, I’ve heard many Republicans promise solemnly to show President Obama as much respect and affection as was shown for President Bush during his eight years in office. Frankly, I can only be sarcastic about this for a short while, because it makes my blood boil. Sure, President Obama deserves respect, and the few people so far who’ve gone after his family are despicable beyond belief. However, does everyone remember that Larry Flynt offered half a million dollars for naked pics of Bush’s daughters? Nothing was done, no one really complained, it was just shrugged off as Flynt being the usual champion of the First Amendment that we all know and love. So am I troubled by what goes on with Pres. Obama? Sure. The police and the Secret Service should investigate all genuine threats, and jail those who make them. But don’t ask me *now* to get energized about threatening posters and picket signs, after the last 8 years. It’s just not going to happen.

Aug 21, 2009 - 10:54 pm 19. Ace:

There is no reason for anyone anywhere to carry a gun.

Aug 24, 2009 - 12:21 pm 20. Leonard:

How come nobody seems to realize that anybody standing close to an armed person is a potential gunshot target?

Sep 2, 2009 - 8:58 am

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