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	<title>Comments on: Neo-Con? Extreme Moderate? How about Revolutionary Liberal.</title>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-845</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Someone mentioned below that not a single attack has been orchestrated by Islamic Jihadists against the U.S. since 9/11/2001.  

The attacks occur daily, and are much more subtle.  They strike at the core of financial prosperity, leveraging the hubris of the current administration.

In 2004, Osama Bin Laden said:
&quot;We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah,&quot;.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, &quot;using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers.&quot;

&quot;We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat,&quot; bin Laden said.


And so it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone mentioned below that not a single attack has been orchestrated by Islamic Jihadists against the U.S. since 9/11/2001.  </p>
<p>The attacks occur daily, and are much more subtle.  They strike at the core of financial prosperity, leveraging the hubris of the current administration.</p>
<p>In 2004, Osama Bin Laden said:<br />
&#8220;We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah,&#8221;.</p>
<p>He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, &#8220;using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat,&#8221; bin Laden said.</p>
<p>And so it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis A. Morris</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis A. Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mr. Silver, 

In spite of your maltreatment of Dr. Garret Macey, I am thilled to become a fan of yours in another category.  Since you probably not moving to Georgia, if you ever choose to run for national office, you have my vote.

Thank you.

Lewis A. Morris
Cumming, GA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Silver, </p>
<p>In spite of your maltreatment of Dr. Garret Macey, I am thilled to become a fan of yours in another category.  Since you probably not moving to Georgia, if you ever choose to run for national office, you have my vote.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Lewis A. Morris<br />
Cumming, GA</p>
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		<title>By: Gary O. Kent</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-827</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary O. Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-827</guid>
		<description>Ron, there&#039;s a book in there somewhere, and you are just the person to write it. I notice you are not on &quot;Law &amp; Order&quot; hardly anymore; did you p--- off Dick Wolfe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, there&#8217;s a book in there somewhere, and you are just the person to write it. I notice you are not on &#8220;Law &amp; Order&#8221; hardly anymore; did you p&#8212; off Dick Wolfe?</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-815</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-815</guid>
		<description>God bless me for getting it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God bless me for getting it right.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-740</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-740</guid>
		<description>Mary; it&#039;s not required to be willing to go and fight yourself to believe the fight is necessary, especially when we have an all volunteer armed force. To believe otherwise prohibits one from having beliefs on anything other than their own field of expertise. This is a favorite liberal stance that makes no sense whatsoever.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary; it&#8217;s not required to be willing to go and fight yourself to believe the fight is necessary, especially when we have an all volunteer armed force. To believe otherwise prohibits one from having beliefs on anything other than their own field of expertise. This is a favorite liberal stance that makes no sense whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Dunleavy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Dunleavy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-739</guid>
		<description>As we have long ago left the age of reason, and entered the age of viscera, labels have become the sine qua non of the current political Areopagus. It allows for procrustean classification of individuals into manageable and targetable groups.

Unfortunately, we seldom select our labels, but have them assigned to us ad hoc by the interest group, or the interests of the individual at hand. I have been called everything from a rabid Nazi to a bleeding heart liberal. In doing so, the labeler is freed from the onerous tasks of reason and discussion, and can cling to their preconceived notions without critical challenge.

That is why labels are so valuable in our political zeitgeist. Politicians seem to find them particularly useful because they allow them to maintain a position without exposure to the inquisitive light of reason. Doing so would reveal their position is not based on the common good or a political philosophy, but instead on the acquisition and maintenance of power.

I think that government is made men, and when a government is populated by men driven by the quest for power, it has a transformative effect; the institution of government becomes an organism that act first in its own self interest and protects itself from within.

If I could choose my own label, I would like to be known as a “reso-con.” Reasoning, and reasonable, I try to think things through based on core beliefs and the information available. Conservative in that I agree with the Founding Fathers; suspect of government encroachment into the affairs of man, seeing the hard left as dangerous as the hard right in their grasp for control to my detriment.

If you think I’m wrong, make the case. Provide dispositive argument that will sway me. Don’t just slap me with a label and move on.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As we have long ago left the age of reason, and entered the age of viscera, labels have become the sine qua non of the current political Areopagus. It allows for procrustean classification of individuals into manageable and targetable groups.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we seldom select our labels, but have them assigned to us ad hoc by the interest group, or the interests of the individual at hand. I have been called everything from a rabid Nazi to a bleeding heart liberal. In doing so, the labeler is freed from the onerous tasks of reason and discussion, and can cling to their preconceived notions without critical challenge.</p>
<p>That is why labels are so valuable in our political zeitgeist. Politicians seem to find them particularly useful because they allow them to maintain a position without exposure to the inquisitive light of reason. Doing so would reveal their position is not based on the common good or a political philosophy, but instead on the acquisition and maintenance of power.</p>
<p>I think that government is made men, and when a government is populated by men driven by the quest for power, it has a transformative effect; the institution of government becomes an organism that act first in its own self interest and protects itself from within.</p>
<p>If I could choose my own label, I would like to be known as a “reso-con.” Reasoning, and reasonable, I try to think things through based on core beliefs and the information available. Conservative in that I agree with the Founding Fathers; suspect of government encroachment into the affairs of man, seeing the hard left as dangerous as the hard right in their grasp for control to my detriment.</p>
<p>If you think I’m wrong, make the case. Provide dispositive argument that will sway me. Don’t just slap me with a label and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-738</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-738</guid>
		<description>&quot;Containment and deterrence are ineffective in this brave new world. There is no containment if you can’t see the enemy; there is no deterrence if the enemy desires death.&quot;

That, Mr. Silver, is the type of insight-in-a-nutshell that will esteem you in opinion column circles in ways that more will soon come to appreciate.  Nicely put.  I will quote you often on this point.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Containment and deterrence are ineffective in this brave new world. There is no containment if you can’t see the enemy; there is no deterrence if the enemy desires death.&#8221;</p>
<p>That, Mr. Silver, is the type of insight-in-a-nutshell that will esteem you in opinion column circles in ways that more will soon come to appreciate.  Nicely put.  I will quote you often on this point.</p>
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		<title>By: Lob</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>Lob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-737</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Greenjeans&lt;/i&gt; :

&lt;i&gt;This isn&#039;t a board game, Ron. The military invasion of Iraq has created some two million refugees, killed an estimated 80,000 Iraqi civilians,and injured hundreds of thousands of Iraqis&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&amp;msp=1242&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&amp;msp=1242&lt;/a&gt; Here is an excerpt:&lt;b&gt;&quot;Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam&#039;s needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam&#039;s reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam&#039;s 8,000-odd days in power&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

Yeah, the world seems like a better place with your buddy Saddam there! Maybe you should move to Canada with Alec Baldwin!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Greenjeans</i> :</p>
<p><i>This isn&#8217;t a board game, Ron. The military invasion of Iraq has created some two million refugees, killed an estimated 80,000 Iraqi civilians,and injured hundreds of thousands of Iraqis</i></p>
<p>&#8220;See <a href="http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&amp;msp=1242" rel="nofollow">http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&amp;msp=1242</a> Here is an excerpt:<b>&#8220;Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam&#8217;s needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam&#8217;s reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam&#8217;s 8,000-odd days in power&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Yeah, the world seems like a better place with your buddy Saddam there! Maybe you should move to Canada with Alec Baldwin!</p>
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		<title>By: Russ in Crystal Lake</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-736</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ in Crystal Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-736</guid>
		<description>Joe Lieberman is the poster child for what is wrong with today’s Democratic Party. At the turn of the century Lieberman represented the bold new face of Democratic politics – a moderate reformer who rejected the corrupt influence-peddling that plagued both parties and who epitomized the centrist New Democratic policies of Bill Clinton. He was the antidote to the poisonous corruption epitomized by John Murtha’s infamous performance during the Abscam sting. Lieberman had the moral courage to stand up to Hollywood for selling junk to children and to his friend the president for letting down those who had looked up to him. He spoke optimistically of a new awakening in America in response to the excesses of cultural licentiousness and bitter partisanship that had split the country. He led the fight for campaign finance reform and a return to the strong, pro-American policies of Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy. These are the traits that earned him the admiration of his colleagues and a place on the 2000 Democratic presidential ticket.

Joe Lieberman was widely respected for his constant stand on these issues and on the growing threat in the Middle East, policies that he shared with Bill Clinton and with his moderate colleagues on both sides of the aisle. He co-authored the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 signed by President Clinton. After the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks Lieberman provided a strong voice for bipartisan efforts to unify the nation and respond to the threat. In 2002 he co-sponsored, along with fellow Democratic senator Evan Bayh and Republicans John  Warner and John McCain, the joint congressional resolution to authorize military action in Iraq.

Speaking for the House of Representatives, Democratic Congressman Richard Gephardt introduced the joint resolution with these words:

&quot;…The first responsibility of our government is to protect the security of our nation and our citizens. …Every member of Congress must make their own decision on the level of threat posed by Iraq and what to do to respond to that threat. I&#039;ve said many times to my caucus that each member should be guided by his or her own conscience, free from others trying to politicize the issue or questioning others&#039; motives. …We disagree on many domestic issues. But this is the most important thing that we do. This should not be about politics. We have to do what is right for the security of our nation and the safety of all Americans.&quot;

Senators Bayh, Biden, Clinton, Daschle, Dodd, Edwards, Feinstein, Kerry, Kohl, Reid, Rockefeller and Schumer all spoke and voted in support of the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq, along with 17 other Democratic senators and more than 80 Democratic congressmen. Six months later, when president Bush put their words into action, many of those who had spoken so earnestly in support of the resolution swiftly redeployed into the refuge of partisan politics, focusing their attention on the next presidential election. Meanwhile, by remaining true to his conscience and his word Joe Lieberman became a pariah, a turncoat, a running dog lackey of the Bush administration. Much the same could be said for Tony Blair.
Thank you, Ron, for your courage and for your willingness to speak truth to power.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Lieberman is the poster child for what is wrong with today’s Democratic Party. At the turn of the century Lieberman represented the bold new face of Democratic politics – a moderate reformer who rejected the corrupt influence-peddling that plagued both parties and who epitomized the centrist New Democratic policies of Bill Clinton. He was the antidote to the poisonous corruption epitomized by John Murtha’s infamous performance during the Abscam sting. Lieberman had the moral courage to stand up to Hollywood for selling junk to children and to his friend the president for letting down those who had looked up to him. He spoke optimistically of a new awakening in America in response to the excesses of cultural licentiousness and bitter partisanship that had split the country. He led the fight for campaign finance reform and a return to the strong, pro-American policies of Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy. These are the traits that earned him the admiration of his colleagues and a place on the 2000 Democratic presidential ticket.</p>
<p>Joe Lieberman was widely respected for his constant stand on these issues and on the growing threat in the Middle East, policies that he shared with Bill Clinton and with his moderate colleagues on both sides of the aisle. He co-authored the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 signed by President Clinton. After the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks Lieberman provided a strong voice for bipartisan efforts to unify the nation and respond to the threat. In 2002 he co-sponsored, along with fellow Democratic senator Evan Bayh and Republicans John  Warner and John McCain, the joint congressional resolution to authorize military action in Iraq.</p>
<p>Speaking for the House of Representatives, Democratic Congressman Richard Gephardt introduced the joint resolution with these words:</p>
<p>&#8220;…The first responsibility of our government is to protect the security of our nation and our citizens. …Every member of Congress must make their own decision on the level of threat posed by Iraq and what to do to respond to that threat. I&#8217;ve said many times to my caucus that each member should be guided by his or her own conscience, free from others trying to politicize the issue or questioning others&#8217; motives. …We disagree on many domestic issues. But this is the most important thing that we do. This should not be about politics. We have to do what is right for the security of our nation and the safety of all Americans.&#8221;</p>
<p>Senators Bayh, Biden, Clinton, Daschle, Dodd, Edwards, Feinstein, Kerry, Kohl, Reid, Rockefeller and Schumer all spoke and voted in support of the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq, along with 17 other Democratic senators and more than 80 Democratic congressmen. Six months later, when president Bush put their words into action, many of those who had spoken so earnestly in support of the resolution swiftly redeployed into the refuge of partisan politics, focusing their attention on the next presidential election. Meanwhile, by remaining true to his conscience and his word Joe Lieberman became a pariah, a turncoat, a running dog lackey of the Bush administration. Much the same could be said for Tony Blair.<br />
Thank you, Ron, for your courage and for your willingness to speak truth to power.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neocon_extreme_moderate_how_ab/comment-page-13/#comment-735</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/ronsilver/2007/11/15/neo-con-extreme-moderate-how-about-revolutionary-liberal/#comment-735</guid>
		<description>Reading this thread is like stepping into a time warp. Greenjeans says it well, so I won&#039;t reiterate the details, but if you&#039;re going to argue that the near-universally derided Bush Doctrine is still valid, you&#039;re going to have to at least ACKNOWLEDGE the facts on the ground. Hell, even the President himself had to do this eventually. I&#039;m not saying you should change your opinion and hew to the new consensus. Just that, if you&#039;re going to make these arguments, you need to realize what you&#039;re dealing with. It&#039;s not just Hollywood liberals who are going to look at you like you&#039;re crazy if you say the Iraq war was a good thing (and continue to tie it to &quot;spreading democracy in the Middle East&quot;, not to mention 9/11). It&#039;s pretty much everyone. Circumstances demand you take a defensive stance - refusing to only makes you look absurd.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this thread is like stepping into a time warp. Greenjeans says it well, so I won&#8217;t reiterate the details, but if you&#8217;re going to argue that the near-universally derided Bush Doctrine is still valid, you&#8217;re going to have to at least ACKNOWLEDGE the facts on the ground. Hell, even the President himself had to do this eventually. I&#8217;m not saying you should change your opinion and hew to the new consensus. Just that, if you&#8217;re going to make these arguments, you need to realize what you&#8217;re dealing with. It&#8217;s not just Hollywood liberals who are going to look at you like you&#8217;re crazy if you say the Iraq war was a good thing (and continue to tie it to &#8220;spreading democracy in the Middle East&#8221;, not to mention 9/11). It&#8217;s pretty much everyone. Circumstances demand you take a defensive stance &#8211; refusing to only makes you look absurd.</p>
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