You are a damn elite, not me!
That sums up the current political debate—whether we look at charges that John McCain has so many houses he can’t remember any longer the actual number of them; or that poor Barack Obama is depressed at the soaring price of arugula; or that Fightin’ Joe Biden once bootstrapped himself up at ten in Scranton; or that moose-hunting Sarah snowmachines as naturally as Barack Obama trips over himself in a bowling lane.
A nation of wood-cutters
In short, we remain log-cabin America, formed as the frontier antithesis of Europe. Apparently, we are determined, at least in mind, to stay that way—rightly or wrongly sneering at both natural Francophile John Kerry’s spandex, and also poor forced and uncomfortable duck-hunting John Kerry, decked out in camouflage, and looking as uncomfortable with a dead duck as Mike Dukakis in a tank helmet. We don’t like snooty elitists, and don’t give them a break when they clumsily try at election time in the eleventh hour to morph into one of the people.
A state of mind
So what is elitism? And who is an elitist? We can start by remembering that objecting to elitism in hardly anti-intellectualism. Elitism itself cannot be defined necessarily by social status, money, blue-chip degrees, or tony zip codes—though all that can make an elitist’s task much easier than can a CSU Bakersfield BA and residence in Oildale.
Rather, elitism is a state of mind. It is a world view in which one’s refinements from the commons—whether they are natural or acquired tastes and interests, whether they be intellectual, musical, artistic, architectural, or simply social—are seen as exclusive rather than inclusive.
Looking up with, rather than down at, others.
Poet and intellectual Dana Gioia, the head of the National Endowment of the Arts, is not an elitist, primarily because he works to bring his knowledge of poetry, music, and art to Middle America, rather than to subsidize yet another talentless endowed Professor of Art’s postmodern pornographic paper-machês that could not exist as art, outside of the university lounge. He believes that music or poetry not only enriches life, but that most in rural areas, or the ghetto, or the middle-class suburbs agree, if only they are given steady opportunity and encouragement for such enjoyment, and the arts are presented in a context of shared tastes and the desire for commonality and fellowship, rather than the condescending bestowal from a superior to his pawn.
Renaissance man Teddy
Teddy Roosevelt was not for long seen as a snooty Ivy-League bore once he went West, fought with the Rough Riders, and in his fifties ended up with malaria in the Amazon, determined that the value of his education was to lead others and enrich his own rather full and often arduous physical life. He read Tolstoy while chasing outlaws out West. In that sense, his Harvard education was of benefit only to the degree learning acquired in Cambridge proved in the real world of some value in sharpening Roosevelt’s acumen, his sense of beauty, his judgment, his knowledge, and his ability to enlighten others. It surely did in matters intellectual, since Roosevelt wrote persuasively about the West and South America, as he drew on word and deed. If education does not do such things— and it often does not for many—then refinement and intellectual prowess are as valuable as a crystal paper weight: sometimes impressive to the eye, but more frequently of no utility, not quite art, not quite an implement.
Something gained, but something also lost
Second, elitism is the deliberate deprecation, in active or passive fashion, of the other world of physicality and pragmatism. The true elitist values his books, his music, his refined taste in furniture, food, and fashion to the neglect of how one makes a book, to the absolute uninterest in the construction of a violin, a chair, a fig, or a pair of pants. The elitist always fails to appreciate, (1) that his existence, and his much cherished rarified world, are impossible without others that are as smart and as skilled as he, and thus due commensurate thanks and acknowledgment, and (2) that in the zero-sum game of life, hours spent at the piano, Smyth’s Greek grammar, the Sunday morning opera, or the Guggenheim Museum are a tragic trade-off in which one forfeits commensurate time invested in the physical challenge of chain-sawing limbs, the aesthetic sense of accomplishment in weeding an overgrown garden, or the satisfaction of re-roofing a house. The elitist, in contrast, simply cannot imagine that such tasks are as necessary as his own, or that such muscular experience can reflect upon character and knowledge as much as those interests of his own softer and more sophisticated world. Again, knowing how to chain-saw or hammer may be more valuable in dealing with Chavez or Putin than distinguishing Virgil from Horace.
Forgetting Plato’s warning about wisdom
Third, the elitist, by his very nature, proves overreaching. That is, he seems in anti-Platonic fashion, to think his expertise in one field is instantly transferable to another. The good tractor mechanic may, with dirty nails and the odor of diesel, instinctively sense that he has shorted rhetoric and diction, and so has to prepare and tread carefully when dealing with the probate lawyer, county assessor, or local professor at night school.
Again, in contrast, the elitist seems to think that his Harvard Law Degree or Stanford PhD, or Victorian on Pacific Heights instantly makes him a far better guide to human nature, diplomacy, warmaking, and governance—almost anything—than does the sheet-rocker or crane operator (cf. the Obama sermon on clinging Pennsylvanians). That is, the elitist does not understand that his admirable hours spent investigating French provincial furniture or understanding the pedigree of good silverware may be of no more utility in cultivating logic, good judgment, and moral character than in mastering checkers.
William F. Buckley, who knew something of the Ivy League, was not being (just) flippant when he quipped
“I’d rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.”
The Anger of the Annoited
The Democrats are furious—and have been so throughout the last thirty years in which they have nominated the less than savvy products of law schools—that the public does not appreciate their concern for the poor and middling classes. This angst plays out in a sort of ‘What’s the Matter With Kansas’ sneering, akin to Marxist false consciousness, that the yokel simply has been hoodwinked by the Machiavellian Karl Roves of the world to vote against his own economic interests by electing a NASCAR-going, nuclar-speaking George Bush, who, the liberals cry out, is really a snooty product of Yale and Harvard determined to protect his own class.
Ivy League–sometimes good, sometimes bad, depending…
How odd that while the media informed us that Obama’s Harvard education was a pivotal consideration, we were never reminded earlier of any advantage in Bush’s own as lengthy pedigree in the Ivy League. If Obama would release his transcripts, we could compare Bush at Yale, and Obama at Columbia to ascertain the more serious student. Legacies were as important perhaps in Bush getting into Yale as affirmative action was for Obama to enter Columbia and Harvard, given his actual GPA. I just did an interview for CNN (probably won’t be aired) in which the interviewer after arguing that the Ivy League should be a proper barometer of talent, then blurted out but “Yale and Harvard didn’t help George Bush.” Odd to see someone trying to make and reject her case all at once.
Rove made them do it
The question liberal Democrats must ask is not whether George Bush fooled Middle America—but rather how was he able to do it? And the answer is a pontificating and hypocritical Al Gore, or a ponderous and sanctimonious snob like John Kerry made it easy. Long gone are the Harry Trumans, Scoop Jacksons, and Hubert Humphreys, all smart, widely read and sophisticated leaders, who nonetheless sought to include others rather than relied on social status, education certificates, pedigrees, zip-codes, tastes and fashion to remind the less blessed that their own cultivated landscape was proof of singular intelligence and competence.
In the arena
Like it or not, this campaign has turned into a cultural war in which elitism is center stage. Everyday some celebrity like a Chevy Chase or Woody Allen, whose own lives are hardly worthy of emulation, gives a nasty, condescending lecture about how inept Palin is, how dense we are, and how embarrassed they would be should we pass on Obama and disappoint “the world”.
When Obama talks ad nauseam about Biden’s “Scranton upbringing” (moved away at ten), we know he’s afraid of his own impression that he is elitist. And that is not helped by his lectures to Americans about their inability to speak French (he doesn’t himself), or praise to Europeans about world efforts to save Berlin during the airlift (mostly a US effort), or braggadocio that he doesn’t look like most American officials who come to Germany (false; cf. Powell and Rice).
I don’t think a Bob Herbert knows anything because he writes for the New York Times, ditto a Sally Quinn who sometimes op-eds at the Washington Post. Matt Damon’s ideas about Palin are no more valid than my vineyard renter’s, but far less logical and sane. I take Obama’s lectures about French about as seriously as I do any backpacking student’s.
Paths taken and not
We are all a sum total of what we’ve read, how we’ve been taught, where we lived, what we’ve done and not done. Given our tragically short-lives it really is a zero-sum game, in which each choice entails a choice not to do something else. I grant that in theory sitting in front of a sofa watching sit-coms could be a bad choice if done serially. But then so could be acting in that silly sit-com day after day a bad choice of time, even if such performance sometimes brings one the money and status to fool others that it is not.
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151 Comments
1. RCP:I agree with the underlying sentiments but disagree the “nation of wood-cutters” paragraph — saying that we can characterize our country as holding those sentiments.
Recent elections have nearly 50/50. Can it really be that half the people in this country don’t understand (or don’t agree with) what this essay points out?
Are we that close to collapsing?
rcp
Sep 21, 2008 - 7:53 am 2. TLM:VDH,
Loved the article, especially the tone. I hear tell most of those backpacking American students in France spend the bulk of their time in cafes speaking English to each other. On mommy and daddy’s dime no less.
I wasted my morning reading the NYT. At this point, in the election, the paper has become a gross parody of its former self. The bias is patently clear. The writers in the Op/Ed section preach to the choir, and denigrate the unconverted. Examine a few pearls of wisdom contained in today’s articles:
Kristoff — The Obama-is-a-Muslim slur is a proxy for racism, paints Obama as the Other (i.e., not American) and leads to worries he is the Anti-Christ. Kristoff now rues the fact that during a previous interview he induced Obama to sing the Muslim call to prayer, something Obama learned while living in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world. For twenty years, Obama was a member of a church with a decidedly anti-American (and racist) preacher, a man Obama lionized in his own writings, and who was the spiritual leader of a church enamored of Louis Farrakhan. Obama has essentially lied about his ties to other radical/anti-American figures such as Ayers, Dorhn, etc.. Obama campaigned for the Democratic nomination based largely on his unusual life story. That he now has difficulty selling this narrative to the rest of America should come as no surprise. Whatever the rationale for their beliefs, and however they choose to express them, American voters should not be blamed for feeling less than reassured Obama holds THEIR values. His whole narrative leads many of us to conclude Obama is predisposed to an eclectic, relativistic and fundamentally non-American world view. That’s Obama’s problem, not the voters.
Dowd — Please give us more of Hollywood’s take on the presidential election. Your fictional interview of Obama with a fictional TV president as a vehicle to slam the opposition was illuminating. But, how many Americans in a position to decide this election actually watch the “West Wing”? It speaks volumes that many of Obama’s highly educated acolytes get their opinion of what the presidency entails by watching a made-up TV show. Any of you Times writers ever notice the bumper stickers in middle America that say “Shoot Your TV”? So, thanks Maureen. You’re fun to read and a great help to McCain/Palin.
Rich — My, how many McCain put-downs you can pack into a single sentence. Too many to refute here. Good luck pinning the financial crisis on McCain. That was truly a disaster of bipartisan making. Keep trying to give the Keating Five story new life. Most of Obama’s supporters were born after it shook out, and history for them begins around 1990. Speaking of which, why don’t we resurrect what Obama was doing during that decade? Air it out like McCain did with Keating. BTW, graduating near the bottom of your class at the Naval Academy doesn’t worry most of us. That ranking was based on many things besides academics and he’s had 50 years since then to show us what he’s made of.
Sep 21, 2008 - 8:13 am 3. Irene NYC:Once again, Dr. Hanson, thank you for a wonderful piece. I’m especially pleased by your mention of Dana Gioia’s terrific work leading the NEA.
Sep 21, 2008 - 9:05 am 4. RJ:Let’s see…now we have a meltdown of those games we’ve been playing with our housing/mortgage markets. Debt is a very profitable business. Recall that nice “Merchant of Venice” Shylock. Talk about slavery…
Let’s sell/transfer this debt, and continue to enjoy life like all Americans “have the right to” as defined by our…narcissism!
Or have we dug a hole too deep to escape?
It’s time for musical chairs or if you prefer, hot potato. Winners and losers get ready to line up!
Pontificate. Our elected representatives, who used regulatory and taxation policies to shape “social rights” and “political realities” to their views of our needs, might prefer this.
They’ll point fingers in every direction so there are no clear understandings…for blame, and perhaps for workable solutions.
We need a sucker to take/buy our “debt”! Who should help (save) us?
China… India? Japan won’t bite again. Or should we just say, screw you!
What would happen then? Revolution? World war?
Wait a minute, you don’t think we, the taxpayers, are going to be stuck with this?
Throw the bums out! Vote these clowns out of office, and let the business community suffer as they should. These clowns have threatened us long enough. Also…
We asked for it via our laziness, now we’ve got it big time! Or as Mom used to say: “You made your bed, now lie in it!”
We either work and pay off this debt, inflate our economy, or stiff some suckers. Make your choice, or try the combo plate if you like. Time to change course, but do we have the will and can we do it?
Did the real pig with lipstick just walk into our lives?
Sep 21, 2008 - 9:24 am 5. DEK:Dr. Hanson…the political and social meaning of what you’ve written here are but one corner of your thoughts in this blog. I’m a teacher with generally soft hands. This morning I was taking out a small tree in my yard and recalling your entry here today. I had to smile: grunting with that damned crowbar, I felt just a bit enobled and, coming from a departed ranching family, as “real and authentic” as my forebears. So much is being written these days on the campaign– I value your words for their dimension far beyond “punditry”. Thanks.
Sep 21, 2008 - 10:07 am 6. Minerva:Doc, please identify the CNN interviewer.
Sep 21, 2008 - 10:25 am 7. RJ:Whoops…I forgot to mention that my lipsticked pig just happens to be wearing a political button that says: “Compassionate Conservatism.”
I’m starting to get the picture of what this really meant, only I didn’t get it at the time I pulled the lever to vote (twice)!
Sep 21, 2008 - 10:34 am 8. Sullihan:Would you agree that, to the elitists, the most annoying point of this election campaign is that so many appear to refuse to vote as instructed by those who know better?
No wonder the Senator from Illinois did so much better in caucuses where there was no secret ballot.
Are we on the verge of another 1948? (An upsetting upset).
Sep 21, 2008 - 11:30 am 9. TLM:RJ,
Compassionate Conservatism went out the window with all those other people working on the 110th floor of the Twin Towers.
The Democrats have an elitist mindset derived from their vaunted Life - read educational - Experiences. This has led to an arrogant view which prevents them from seeing any other manner of learning as worthwhile. The American people continue to reject this ridiculous notion. The Republicans have become arrogant elitists in their own right. They now rely on painting their opponents as elitist and, with the Dems compliance, use this tactic to win elections. Maybe we do need a revolution. Liberte, Egalite, Equalite — with an emphasis on the second word.
Sep 21, 2008 - 11:40 am 10. Tom:Isn’t there a difference between snobbery and elitism? Elitism is a wonderful thing. An elitist is someone who maintains the highest standardsof personal conduct and intellectual endeavor. A snob is just a misanthrope who uses his intellectual refinements to legitimate his hatred for humanity. His primary reason for preferring Mozart to Michael Jackson arises from the fact that Mozart has a sort of cultural cache while Michael Jackson is simply a popular singer. The snob’s appreciation of Mozart has little to do with the overpowering beauty of his music. Rather, it is just another technique to distance himself from the great lot of humanity. Armed with crass sophistication, the snob can now have disdain for the common folk and their vulgar tastes. That’s my semi-bogus theory on the “snob” anyway.
Sep 21, 2008 - 11:58 am 11. Ron Kean:I guess my point is that elitism is a misused word, one that is often confused with snobbery. We must strive to be elite in everything that we do, and most importantly in matters that pertain to our soul. It is thoroughly corrosive to believe that watching primetime television will nurture your soul the same way that Homer, Shakespeare, or farming will.
‘elite’
If more gay rights or abortion rights are to become law, they would have to come through the legislative process; first the house then the senate and be voted on by the representatives who reflect the attitude and preferences of the people of the United States.
Liberals don’t even try to go that route because everybody knows that most people in the United States don’t agree with their position. Liberals think they’re a rarefied group whose opinion is better/smarter so they fight to get someone like them in the Supreme Court to bypass the feelings and preferences of the majority of us Americans.
Another A+ for the good Professor.
Sep 21, 2008 - 1:10 pm 12. Jack Okie:RCP:
We are “50/50″ because the Old Media have been spewing propaganda rather than facts for the past 40 years or so. Bill Whittle has a wonderful essay at National Review about the elites; here is a key passage regarding McCain and Palin:
“No wonder they must be destroyed. Because — Sarah Palin especially — presents a mortal threat to these people who have determined over cocktails who the next President should be and who now clearly mean to grind into metal shards the transaxle of their credibility in order to get the result they must have. Truly, they are before our eyes destroying the machine they have built in order to get their victory. What the hell is so threatening to be worth that?
Only this: the living proof that they are not needed. Not needed to govern, not needed to influence and guide, not needed to lecture us on our intellectual and moral failings which are visible only from the heights of Manhattan skyscrapers or the palaces up on Mulholland Drive. Not needed. We can do it — and do it better — without all of them.”
Link: http://tinyurl.com/4kzy7v
Sep 21, 2008 - 1:24 pm 13. Joe Kean:So many things to say…
First, Dr. Hanson, you never disappoint. Thanks for the great article.
Second, Ron Kean: Are we related? As you probably already know, the “four letter Keans” are few and far between. If you would like, I will post my personal e-mail so we can talk.
Third, when will Bill Whittle be brought into the Pajamas Media fold. If I could have VDH, Belmont Club and Bill Whittle all at one convenient address it would be great!
Sep 21, 2008 - 3:00 pm 14. ic:It’s rather easy to distinguish between “elitist” and non-elitist. The non-elitist word for “elitist” is “snob”. Everyone knows TR was not a snob, no matter how much money and Ivy degrees TR had, he was not an elitist. GWB is not a snob, McCain has a very rich wife, but he is not a snob. On the other hand, JFKerry has a very rich wife and is a snob, an “elitist”.
Sometimes people put up a front disdaining the unwashed, because deep down they are insecure. They know they don’t deserve their current status, so they are arrogant towards others to cover up their sense of insecurity. They act and live a snob: Al Gore, JFKerry, Obama, and most Hollywood’s so-called stars fit this profile to a T. These snobs are elitists. Bill and Hill may be arrogant, but they don’t fit in the “elitist” hole. May be they really believe they are better than most people, they don’t have to mask that sense of insecurity because they simply don’t feel insecure.
Sep 21, 2008 - 5:55 pm 15. Alexis:VDH,
When reading through supporter blogs at Obama’s web site, it is easy to get the impression that supporting Obama is a means to assert one’s moral superiority over other Americans. Their enthusiasm is noticable. Perhaps you might be interested in seeing the following parody that satirizes how Obama supporters may be a bit too enthusiastic for their own good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0cQLLc75ak
Sep 21, 2008 - 6:44 pm 16. Simon Kenton:At the height of Ward Churchill’s denouement (literally, when all his knots were untying), I told my wife, who works for the University of Colorado, “The guy is no more, no less than a standard grifter. And he’s successfully conned the University for 20 years. Talk about a perfect environment for admiring the Emperor’s clothes. But he wouldn’t have lasted 10 days on a dry-wall crew.”
Sep 21, 2008 - 7:17 pm 17. R Richard Schweitzer:The thesis here is that great one of balancing knowing about with knowing how in order to understand why.
Seeking the “harmonious.”
Sep 21, 2008 - 8:14 pm 18. Gylippus:More profound insights by the good Professor.
I would add one thing: there is a half-conscious totalitarian element to be found in the Leftist elite’s preachings today. It is born out of the abstract desire to control the future, common amongst many of the learned.
The excesses of the pragmatic working classes are generally less odious, since they value people (and their labors)over ideas. Thus, under revolutionary conditions, they are usually satisfied with a short burst of violence and a chance for a fresh start. It is the cultural elites who like to control what people think.
Sep 21, 2008 - 9:12 pm 19. Tom:I’d just like to add that I think many of you are overestimating the value and difficulty of manual labor. I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood, worked blue collar jobs (bottle delivery, house painting, dish washing, shoveling dirt), and generally associated with people who had similar backgrounds. Very few of these people were admirable in any way, and most were stupid and crass. That may sound harsh, but I’m afraid it is true. Really, those of you who have actually lived in and succesfully escaped a true working class neighborhood will understand what b.s. it is to hold up the “working man” as a paragon of virtue. Please! I knew countless guys on “a drywall crew” that snorted coke on the job. Every painter I knew was a full-fledged alcoholic. Electricians were arrogant SOBs. Very few of these “regular-guy” workers were actually humble, dilligent workers; most were arrogant jerks. I could go on for hours about the senseless fights, drug abuse, and general disregard and disrespect for other people.
I am grateful for the home that I live in and the labor that produced it, but I can not admire the habits and attitudes of those who produced it. Old fashioned hard work did not make them better men.
Sep 22, 2008 - 12:51 am 20. RuleTopia:At the heart of socialism is elitism. Socialism is the idea that a small group of people should run the lives of others. Elites should do so because most of us are too stupid to run our own lives and need to be protected from ourselves.
How much of our lives socialists will run is merely a practical question. Socialists would run every aspect of our lives but have learned what the communists didn’t: incremental control of our lives is easier for us to swallow. Yesterday, it was liberating women for the drudgery of marriage and child-rearing. Today, not at all ironically, it’s giving gays the right to marry and rear children. Tomorrow? You can bet it will make gay marriage seem quite pedestrian.
Sep 22, 2008 - 2:28 am 21. Ron Kean:Tom
Good point about the myth of the man with callous hands.
So the question is, is the percentage of ’senseless fights, drug abuse, and general disregard and disrespect for other people’ greater for that man’s group than for the white collar man’s?
Logic may suggest that if the percentage of ‘bad’, let’s say is more for the worker, given the numbers, may we can conclude that there are still far more ‘good’ working people than ‘good’ other types.
Then again there’s the famous quote from the late W. F. Buckley about the first 400 names in the Boston phone book.
And VDH’s point of view seems centered around farmers (I presume only from reading much of his work) who I know from personal experience to be generally small town decent.
You have personal experience. The workers I knew seemed alright I guess but I grew up in a modest mid-western suburb and usually had clean work with no heavy lifting.
Joe Kean
My grandfather on my father’s side came from Russia and changed his name from Schvertkin to Kean in the early 30’s. Actually I had been hoping for years to find a Schvertkin.
Sep 22, 2008 - 8:32 am 22. Cato:This is a good essay. I think that the heart of the discussion about elitism is respect. Tom points out that there are many people in the working class whose behavior is no more admirable than that of many self-styled members of various elites.
I was fortunate enough to grow up with parents from families of radically diverse backgrounds, but both in many respects quite privileged and academically well-educated. If there was a common thread however, instilled into all of us on both sides of the extended family, that thread was respect for excellence wherever you found it. A man or woman, however humble, who did a job well, deserved and was to be treated with respect.
The Northeastern/California elites, especially in the 40-odd years since the vastly divergent reactions of the elites and the rest of the country to the Vietnam War and what used to be called the Counterculture, have lost the ability to see value in, and hence to respect, the rest of the country and the values that inform our daily lives.
Sep 22, 2008 - 9:31 am 23. Tom:I should add that the farmers I knew were all top-notch guys. Most were in the cattle business, but I’m sure a few planted some crops. They seemed like they enjoyed the outdoors and a bit of solitude. One side of my family owned and operated a small cattle ranch. Hard work, especially bucking hay, and very little pay if things don’t go smoothly. In fact, it seems pretty easy to get deep in debt purchasing all the farm equipment.
Now it sounds like Meth is a major presence in these midwest states, so I don’t know how the next generation of farmers is fairing. Many kids are also moving away from the small towns after high school. Downtowns are normally dead except for a few antique stores. But people are finding jobs elsewhere, so it isn’t entirely gloomy.
I guess the difference between the country folks and the urban working folk I was normally around was that the former had several deep traditions running through them. Working, wild fun, school, family tradition, and Christianity formed these people. I never got any snooty attitude about the frivolity of intellectual endeavor. I’m not saying they were perfect, but my God, they were very different than most of the blue-collar workers I knew.
The belief that manual labor is somehow the most important endeavor in life is just b.s. Yes, it is important to build homes and fix cars and pave roads. But when physical labor becomes THE path to a virtous life, and when spiritual or intellectual matters are neglected or belittled, then a nasty void is created.
Sep 22, 2008 - 11:54 am 24. Dan:You know what? Tom’s right! I’ve worked as a painter and landscaper and loved it. I dropped out of school to get married and then I went to art school. I’ve known people across all social barriers and the number of good people has nothing to do with class but inner strength and a determination to face the truth in any situation and put right their ships when they go off course, meaning they take responsibility for their own actions. Let’s not romanticize the working class any more than we give credit to people who go to school through mere inertia and parental expectations.
That being said, has anyone seen this thing that claims to be an ad for Barack Obama? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiDk3aoutb4
Is it for real or a spoof? Can it possibly be for real? Is the Obamassia really saying that a dancin’ fool is much better than a guy who ain’t hip FOR THE PRESIDENCY? Can it really be that he is appealing in such a fundamentally unserious way for a very serious job? Please! Tell me ain’t so. Tell me it’s so. Tell me ain’t so. I don’t know WHAT way to go!
If it’s so, I’d say the Democrats are lunatics about to lose their 3rd and penultimate contest to George W. Bush in the year 2000, forever stuck on 2000! Y2K? but… Why 2K? 2K or not 2K?? and am I also going insane? IS it catchy?
PS: The Dem’s last loss to W is likely to be history, sometime, oh… in the future… uhhhh, beyond Y2K.
Sep 22, 2008 - 11:56 am 25. msnthrop:Elite, elite, elite, what a ridiculous thing for an American to get worked up over. Try putting your salary in this website and you’ll see every one of us is an elite.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/
Sep 22, 2008 - 2:41 pm 26. Doug:uh huh. so let me get this straight. we don’t want the educated people to run the country. lets get a regular gal, Sarah Palin, give her a quick briefing on geo politics, and send her off to negotiate with Putin, Sarkosy, Harper, and whoever it is that’s running China. -Hey I have no idea who’s running China! I’m no pansy elitist! Vote for me!
Sep 22, 2008 - 7:31 pm 27. Robert Winkler Burke:Doctor Hanson, your writings helped me create this story, which speaks to the issue:
The Three Proud Collars
By Robert Winkler Burke
Copyright 9/20/08
One day in a dry cleaning shop three collars started talking to one another. The blue collar said he was the best collar because his owner could fix any machinery on the planet. The white collar said he was the best collar because his owner could design any machine on the planet. The clerical collar said he was the best collar because his owner could communicate with the maker of the planet. And so they argued without conclusion, without humility and without perspective.
Finally, the pressing machine said they should stop arguing because, in the end none of them were so good that they didn’t need their wrinkles ironed out.
http://www.inthatdayteachings.com
Sep 22, 2008 - 9:06 pm 28. Tina Trent:Robert Winkler Burke
Reno, Nevada USA
I’m afraid I can’t be as optimistic as VDH about character in academia. The glass isn’t even half full, and the water-line drops in direct proportion to the institution’s prestige. I don’t doubt I would have been far more competitive on the elite job market if I had become a stripper instead of studying crime legislation, if I had changed my gender rather than taking courses in teaching composition, if I had exhibitionistically corresponded with “poets” on death row rather than writing about prosody. The miasma of bad ideas infect entire rankings in U.S. News and World Report.
I matriculated from a graduate program at a respected university where one esteemed faculty member’s intellectual contributions consisted of bragging about participating in race-based beatings and gang rape (his memoir was required reading in freshman seminars, to instill appropriate liberal guilt), where a “senior lecturer” at the law school is a serial co-conspirator in the murder of police officers, and where classroom assignments included listening to Sister Souljah spewing sexual invectives and lectures on coming out of the closet.
The “less elite” schools are in no way immune to this mind-boggling stuff — it seems every faculty needs its felons nowadays. But at elite institutions, make no mistake about it — this is the content of the character of elitism.
Sep 23, 2008 - 8:15 am 29. always right:Tom may be right about blue-collared workers. Like most of us (regular folks), everybody has their own share of problems, and their own way of dealing them.
However, I don’t see the blue-collared worker on a soapbox preaching to the neighborhood on how to run their lives, or let him be the one to run their lives for them.
On that part alone, it set the working class higher and apart from the ‘elitists’.
Sep 23, 2008 - 11:11 am 30. Pajamas Media » Elitism and the Presidential Campaign:[...] the entire piece here [...]
Sep 23, 2008 - 11:24 am 31. Larry J:uh huh. so let me get this straight. we don’t want the educated people to run the country. lets get a regular gal, Sarah Palin, give her a quick briefing on geo politics, and send her off to negotiate with Putin, Sarkosy, Harper, and whoever it is that’s running China. -Hey I have no idea who’s running China! I’m no pansy elitist! Vote for me!
We’ve had a lot of Ivy League educated people running this country at least as far back as FDR’s brain trust and probably earlier. Look where that has got us. Roosevelt’s brain trust helped him implement policies that deepened and prolonged the Great Depression, and that’s just for starters.
If you check the diplomas of the people who ran Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, etc., I’ll wager you’ll find a lot of people with fancy degrees from fancy schools. Why, then, did they do such stupid things? Could it be that the “best and brightest” aren’t?
There are genuine elites based on performance, such as in the military. For example, there are several hundred thousand soldiers in the US Army. There’s a much smaller number, perhaps 12,000 or so who are paratroopers. There’s a much smaller number who are Rangers, with smaller still numbers of Green Berets and Delta Force. Each of these levels requires a level of commitment, skill, and dedication beyond that of other soldiers. Those are elites of achievement, not of where they went to school.
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:13 pm 32. Mark Rinzel:Simply depressing to see such a great mind caught up in petty resentments. You show your hand in mentioning what kind of lettuce Obama likes, or how he looks in a bowling alley. Totally irrelevant and totally immature. Again, just because Obama reminds you of some arrogant grad student you may have known does not damn him. The fact that you cling–Yes, CLING–to an inveterate lying airhead like Palin makes me sad that I bought 3 of your books.
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:17 pm 33. T:Dr. Hanson,
I am reminded of the quote from John Gardner:
“An excellent plumber is infinitely more admirable than an incompetent philosopher. The society that scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water.”
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:25 pm 34. fred:I want to add this point to the discussion about what an elitist is or is not. I do not have my degrees from the Ivies, but that bothers me not a whit. I received a quality education all the same and have been able to debate on equal footing with acquaintances who did attend Ivy League schools. I was never intimidated by them. I don’t see myself as better than them. I would, however like to add one point about their educations: the grade inflation in the Ivies, particularly Harvard, is stunning in comparison with what I saw at the state university I attended and at Boston College where I did my master’s degree.
And that matters in this sense: the elites from the Ivies over time rest on their own laurels and think there is not much else they need to learn. After all, they did get into an Ivy League school and get mostly A’s.
Which leads to another point. This mindset leads to intellectual sloth. Almost every person I’ve met from those schools is woefully ill-equipped with knowledge about Islam - its scriptures, its theology, Sharia Law, and the fourteen hundred years of jihad against the kafir world. This applies to people in our government who got their degrees from the elite institutions, include the President of the United States (who I voted for in ‘04 and do not instinctively hate). In debates with these people about Islam, I clean their clock. Not that this is something to brag about, because it’s not. Rather, it is actually a tragic thing and something that lays us bare to a vicious enemy who will use every strategem to defeat us.
This intellectual sloth and moral torpor, given the positions these people get after school, are dangerous things. We ordinary citizens are, in some ways, helpless before their habits of mind.
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:33 pm 35. dpw:born on a north dakota wheat farm with noweigian immigrents as forefathers has given me a mental toughness well beyond the norm. that, combined with a rational objectivity natural to frontier people, steeled me to the vagaries of an elite education and mutiply year residences in europe and new york, and san francisco. we also learned very early in life to respect the rights of others; particularily the right to be different. after all, that was one of the main reasons my ancestors left norway. they felt absolute desire to live free without societal pressure to be like everyone else. what is political correctness? political correctness is at it’s extreme in san francisco and i have observed the gradual disappearence of respect for political individuality in the bay area. that has been driven by an elitest philosophy that gives no quarter.
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:34 pm 36. Kathy from Kansas:Dr. Hanson, have you read any Wendell Berry? You touch on a lot of his themes in this piece. He has a very different view of the Iraq war than you and I do, but, like you, he is a thoughtful student of history, and equally perceptive about the value of honest craftsmanship and husbandry, and the sanity and wisdom that often develops in those who do that kind of work. Like you, Berry has a strong intuitive sense of “the American spirit.”
I live in a rural area, as you do, and so I know many people who resemble the Palins–although the Palins are phenomenally outstanding examples of the breed. What I wonder is: Is there still a critical mass of the American people, which is a mostly NON-rural people now, who still harbor these rural-rooted values, and who will translate those values into their voting? I pray that the answer is yes.
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:34 pm 37. trangbang68:Bingo always right! You beat me to the punch.
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:46 pm 38. tomw:I grew up in the rust belt, my dad a factory worker. My friend’s dads were factory workers. Some of us made bad choices ; some quietly worked in the same factories until they closed down, but none of us thought we were superior to whole classes of people because we were the star pupil in a graduate poli-sci class.
The disgusting thing about the left is their patronizing of their alleged inferiors, their clinging to asinine disproven ideologies because some jackass 60’s turd blossom professor can bully them into believing it in a classroom.
This country was built on the backs of laborers. Their trades have largely been sold down the river by the MBA pirates on Wall Street. Their values have been derided by Hollywood degenerates. Their national narratives has been trampled under foot by treasonous mockers on the left. I guess we’ll see on a Tuesday in November whose vision sells.
So because the Obama and democrats think they know how to run the government better, they’re elitist? But McCain and the republicans think they know how to run the government better, but they’re not? Sorry, Dr Hansen, but that doesn’t pass the smell test. Yes, both sides think they know what’s better for the country than the other, surprise, surprise.
Sep 23, 2008 - 1:01 pm 39. trangbang68:Mark Rinzel calls Palin “an inveterate lying airhead”. That is the smirking crap weasel posturing that lots of us find extremely distasteful. Interestingly, inveterate means deep rooted, established. That is what the left disdains with acrid bitterness; tradition.
Sep 23, 2008 - 1:13 pm 40. Ron Kean:Oh you have a long standing successful marriage’ why haven’t you embraced enlightened rutting like us libertines? Church going, what a provincial moron. You support the military; you war mongering fascist.
“You’ve been with the professors and they’ve all liked your looks.
With great lawyers you’ve discussed lepers and crooks
You’ve been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s books
You’re very well read its well known
But something is happening and you don’t know what it is
Do you Mr. Jones”
Mark Rinzel
‘totally immature’…very funny.
‘ inveterate lying airhead like Palin’…she never said she landed in Bosnia or dodged smiper fire.
I just so happened to need a plumber over the weekend and I was sure happy he came. Yuk.
Go Mizzou.
Sep 23, 2008 - 1:26 pm 41. tomw:Mark Rinzel: Ditto.
Can someone explain what Palin brings to the table?
Sep 23, 2008 - 1:27 pm 42. FreedomLover:VDH, you said: “In short, we remain log-cabin America, formed as the frontier antithesis of Europe. Apparently, we are determined, at least in mind, to stay that way ….”
Actually, as the effects of the $700B bailout trickle down, we may stay that way in fact! Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing - Americans do best when challenged!
Sep 23, 2008 - 1:39 pm 43. Sarah:Can someone explain what Obama brings to the table? Besides of course sexism, racism, socialism, and a love of terrorists! In all honesty I’m actually STILL waiting for someone/anyone to to point our any RELEVANT information that proves that this man is capable of leading our country. Sorry, “community organization” and “running a campaign” don’t count. I’m guessing I’ll still be waiting on Nov. 5!
Sep 23, 2008 - 1:52 pm 44. Bugs:“tomw”
For the sake of the Republican party please keep on harping about Sarah Palin because the longer you b*tch about her the more it turns people off B.O. You’re doing all of us a favor so keep up the good work!
“Can someone explain what Palin brings to the table?”
I can. For starters, she doesn’t regard half of her fellow citizens as ignorant peasants like you and your liberal friends and your even more liberal candidate do. At best, that means she’s more in touch with the American people than the college boy who rubs elbows with bomb-throwing, Ameica-cursing denizens of the far-left fringe. At worst, it means she’s not a pompous butthead.
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:28 pm 45. Self-hating boomer:Dang, these elitists are dense. If you gotta ask, you’ll never know.
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:32 pm 46. tomw:Sarah:
I see Obama as bringing a sound and reasoned approach to dealing with our nation’s problems. His policies are more well thought out and he the ability to comunicate effectively. I’m sure this will be scoffed at, but after 8 years of a stammering idiot, it’s what this country needs. I also agree with him on his specific policy issues:
Economy: Regulation and oversight of our financial systems is desperately needed, as is obvious today. Deregulation is what got us here.
Taxes: A tax plan that favors the lower and middle class, and reduces taxes for 95% of us.
Energy: A plan to move us away from oil towards renewable and environmentally friendly sources.
Environment: He doesn’t ignore global warming. ‘nuf said.
Foreign Policy: Bringing diplomacy back into the picture.
In each of these issues, I see nothing but the same from McCain, just 4 more years of Bush. As for Palin, I don’t know because she’s been held on a tight leash (2 interviews since her selection). Does she even have an opinion on these topics?
The selection of Palin says a lot about McCain. A very hasty and politically motivated selection. (More interested in winning the election than doing what’s best for the country). Also, the man is 72, so there’s the very real possibility that he will die during his term. The thought of her as president is really, really scary. It’s one thing to go from PTO, to mayor. Or mayor to Governor, and governor to VP. But just remeber, she’s really just a PTO Hockey mom who got elected to Governor, mostly because she’s pretty and can read a teleprompter.
So I showed you mine, please show me yours. What is it Palin brings to the table?
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:36 pm 47. Thom:tomw: Can I list anything that you won’t immediately dismiss as unimportant, even though it’s only unimportant to you? Probably not. And you’d probably feel the same way if I asked you to explain what Obama brings to the table.
Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer with any of the candidates. McCain is either a maverick who is true to his own principles, or he’s a hot-head who won’t listen. Obama is either a brilliant visionary who is wise to stay above the fray or he’s an arrogant lightweight who uses “vision” to cover for “naivety”.
Obama was not wrong in calling himself a blank slate onto which people project themselves. ALL the candidates are that. We look for clues and insights as to whath they’re really like, but ultimately we place weight on every factoid based on our own personality.
But this is all largely off the point. Webster’s defines “Elite” as meaning 1 a. the choice part, esp. a socially superior group, b. a powerful minority group. “Elitism” is defined as 1 a. leadership or rule by an elite, b. belief in or advocacy of such elitism. 2. Consciousness of being or belonging to an elite.
There’s no arguing that political parties are elites, in that they BOTH believe they are more fit to rule. Where the elitism that VDH seems to be decrying comes in is when we start advocating that certain aspects of a person’s make-up or interests somehow make them more fit to rule than others.
No one here is likely to argue that intelligence is important. But it’s much more questionable to say that an expert in Shakespeare is more fit to rule than an expert in the maintenance of the internal combustion engine–or the opposite. Elitism can go both ways.
Both parties are guilty of elitism to a degree. But one side is building an entire campaign around it, while the other side is building an entire campaign against it.
To be honest, Palin’s lack of experience at the national level does bother me. Obama’s lack of experience bothers me too. But to say that Palin is unfit to lead because she went to a college in Idaho, or because she hunts moose, or because she is active in her church is just wrong. It’s saying that someone from THAT social circle is somehow inferior based entirely on social aspects.
Criticize Palins record all you want. That’s fair game. That’s not elitist. But if you’re going to attack her for having a snowmobile racer husband you’d better be prepared to say “fair game” when your man gets attacked for championing arugula.
Frankly I think both claims are nuts and irrelevant. But that’s just me, evidently.
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:37 pm 48. ozziepat:State I; In a pure socialist society there are only two classes: the leadership and the ignorant masses to be exploited.
State II: In our US society (so far), from the perspective of the progressive liberal-socialist there are three classes: the elite, which includes the “leadership” and their enablers (academics, media, etc.); the evil rich, who are temporarily allowed to exist in order to provide tax revenues to support socialist causes; and the ignorant masses to be exploited.
The goal of the modern liberal-socialist is to evolve from State II to State I on a global scale, and the sooner the better. The fact that such a goal is the antithesis of everything on which this country was founded does not bother them. The elite view the world from a self-absorbed illusion of superiority, convinced that what they believe and what they want is best for all BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE AND DESIRE IT - narcissism in its purest form which, combined with a lust for power to implement their vision of utopia, seriously threatens our future.
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:39 pm 49. tomw:Bugs:
First off, where does this “She doesn’t regard half of her fellow citizens as ignorant peasants like you” come from? Why is it that if I think differently than you, you think I’m talking down to you? I’m not and neither is Obama. We have a differnt opinion, that’s all. McCain/palin think they know what’s best for the country, that doesn’t make them elitist? So why the double standard?
Anyway, you’ve established that she’s not “elitist”- great. No doubt about it, she’s just a regular hockey mom. Now what skills does she posses that will help her lead our country?
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:44 pm 50. HRPKathy:tomw
The difference is that democrats want to use government to run our lives, and republicans believe that government should get out of the way except in infrastructure and national defense. The democrat philospophy must then need to be based on system of superiors deciding for their lessers - which leads to totalitarianism.
Republicans have faith in the individual, whereas democrats have faith in the collective. Collectivism therefore incestuously breeds its own standards, ideologically based, and highly relative - thus producing evolving standards such as Ivy League educations now in fashion. Individualism stands on its own achievements juxtaposed against the history, science, and governance that preceeded it.
Therefore any attempt by the collective to force its own relative standards upon those who use stubborn facts instead will be met with scorn - in the fashion of one of Newton’s Laws - an equal and opposite force.
… thus the meaningless term ‘community activist’ vs. town mayor.
Additionally, elitists try to mimic their target audience for the purpose of persuasion by faking an assimilation (ie. hunting, bowling, tank driving) which doesn’t pass the smell test. Authenticity is key because it allows the voter to have a reliable prediction of behavior. Leftists make the mistake of portraying only a caricature of conservatives, and are easily seen for the insulting frauds they are.
Take for example some of the recent spate of comments on blogs that begin “I am a concerned Christian”. Absolutely no concerned Christian writes that, and why? Because they don’t see that as a ’set apart’ only a liberal sees it as an outlier because it is outside their experience.
Additionally, when outside the collective, the elitist is very nervous because his superiority is not in evidence, and being judged by achievement rather than effort ultimately reminds them of why they prefer the collective.
Collectivists can hold themselves as caring for the poor because they’ll spend every last dime of someone else’s money to do it.
Sep 23, 2008 - 2:53 pm 51. jeff:I think you correctly defined the tone of elite. Interestingly, the blue bloods that ran the Republican party in the early part of the 20th century strike me as elite.
Here is what summed it up for me. In Iowa, Obama famously asked a grocer for some arugula. The grocer didn’t know what it was.
In Philly, Obama went into a grocer looking for some fancy cheeses. They only had run of the mill stuff. In 2004, Kerry was in Philly and ordered brie on his cheese steak or something like that.
Actions speak louder than words.
Obama saying Ayers is “some guy in his neighborhood” are words. His actions were that he launched his political career in Ayers/Dorhn’s living room.
McCain is not my favorite Republican. But he can talk the talk, and walk the walk. There is something to that.
Sep 23, 2008 - 3:01 pm 52. tomw:Thom: Nice post. You could probably list some things that I might not dismiss. Maybe I would. Believe it or not, there are some Obama positions that I don’t agree with.
The maverick:
The maverick is long gone. McCain used to be a thorn in the republican party’s side because of the way he went against party lines on many issues:
-McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
-McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, then caved to the party position.
I really respected him when he spoke out against waterboarding. I was very disappointed when he bowed to the party so he could get the nomination.
You stated:
“Both parties are guilty of elitism to a degree. But one side is building an entire campaign around it, while the other side is building an entire campaign against it”
How is Obama building a campaign around elitism? What does that mean exactly? Perhaps it’s just perception because you disagree with his position?
Sep 23, 2008 - 3:05 pm 53. Larry J:So because the Obama and democrats think they know how to run the government better, they’re elitist? But McCain and the republicans think they know how to run the government better, but they’re not? Sorry, Dr Hansen, but that doesn’t pass the smell test. Yes, both sides think they know what’s better for the country than the other, surprise, surprise.
It goes without saying that each candidate believes he can do a better job of running the country than the other man. Elitists believe they’re better than everyone else. I’ve heard some athletes say that “it ain’t bragging if you can do it” but I’ve yet to see any evidence on Obama’s side that he can.
How many times have you heard terms like “trailer trash” or “90% of Americans are morons”? Obama projects the appearance (whether true or not) that he believes he’s not only better than McCain but everyone else. Statements he made such as “We are the change we’re waiting for” don’t exactly come across as humility. McCain does not come across as thinking he’s better than everyone else. That’s the difference.
Sep 23, 2008 - 3:25 pm 54. tomw:[i]How many times have you heard terms like “trailer trash” or “90% of Americans are morons”?[/i]
From Obama? Never.
Saying “We are the change we’re waiting for” - isn’t elitism, that’s just a campaign slogan. It’s self empowerment. It’s “We can do it.” Is this really the best example you have of something Obama has said that tells you he thinks he’s better than the rest of us?
Sep 23, 2008 - 3:33 pm 55. David Wynn:Mr. Hanson, I don’t think your article was particularly well written.
I’ll take the gist of your argument, that elitism is an attitude rather than a provable specific quality, but some of your points simply don’t follow.
For example, with your transitive point. While I agree studying one thing and thinking you know everything is foolish, I happen t think that studying policy and the law, then going off to make policy and law, is not such a stretch as you implied. If those who study law are studying things unrelated to lawmaking, what then should they study to keep from breaching this idea you’ve set up?
Finally, I think elitism will play a role in the election, but I don’t think its role will help the public at all, because people will not be able to make an appraisal of McCain and Obama on a personal level. They will instead make a personal appraisal of the images of McCain and Obama that they are presented. It cannot be emphasized enough how disparate these two things are likely to be for both candidates.
I for one, think voters should be concerned with policy more than personality, but even if they choose the latter, their judgments will be inherently skewed by whatever media they choose to consume (barring that they know the candidates and interact with them personally of course).
Sep 23, 2008 - 3:36 pm 56. tomw:HRPKathy:
Of course I don’t agree that government should run our lives. We’re just people who need to keep organizing ourselves to make our country better. I know health care is a hot topic and republicans want to keep it completely privatized. The problem is that as a nation we spend an inordinate amount of our GDP on health care, yet we rank like 50th in the world. The democrat position is that we can do better. The private market isn’t working. People are being denied coverage, which is insane because the ones denied obviously need it the most. That’s a problem that needs to be fixed, and the free market isn’t doing it. If we want it to be better, we as a collective need to change it so it works for everyone.
Sep 23, 2008 - 3:55 pm 57. 888:David Wynn, okay, maybe it’s not necessarily the personality factor that’s important. However, I would say character and judgment are valid issues. No one wants another disgrace to the Office like Monica, or a near disgrace, Riehl (of John Edwards fame) or Watergate, or for that matter, a president who was/is buddies with a known terrorist, an America-hating/Jew-hating/racist reverend and a convicted gangster. Character and judgment still count.
Sep 23, 2008 - 4:12 pm 58. proud elitist:Oh, so now we’re changing the terminology again?
Probably having Mitt or Rudy or Lady (Baroness) de Rothschild calling the other “side” elitist was a wee bit of a problem, eh?
Here’s the difference between Dems and Repubs: Dems actually care about the lower and middle class. Repubs don’t give a frak.
Witness the proposed bail-out of WALL Street, not MAIN street.
You know what could be done with a lot less than the proposed $700B? What about the Government paying off all delinquent mortages and the homeowners paying back their payments to the US Government. Oh wait, where have I heard that before? Which decade was that? Which president? At least that would help out MAIN street.
And don’t tell me DEMs want to tell you what to do. Bull-hockey. Dems, if anyone, believe in more freedoms that the Republicans. They believe in civil liberties, the right to be acknowledged (at minimun) in any relationship you choose whether straight or gay, the right for you or your children to seek education - if you want to, the right to live the American dream as Obama, for example has exemplified, the right to choose, the right for you to practice whatever religion you want, the right for you to obtain an education and get a leg up on life.
Don’t kid yourselves - the Republicans don’t give a frak about the lower/middle income crew. Their prevalent conservative philosophy - deregulation - is part of why we are in a crisis. Plus total lack of oversight from both sides of the aisle.
You want character judgement? McCain-Keating. McCain-Gramm. McCain-Rovian campaigners. McCain-cover-up-wife’s-drug-habit-that-stole-from-charities. Palin-2 wack-o pastors. Palin, Todd stalking Wooten and taking pictures.
Yeah, I’ll take the guy linked tangentially to Ayers, Rezko and with Rev. Wright.
If you think Obama hates or disdains America, you are wrong. He IS the American dream.
Well, actually, so is McCain — Golddigger.
And despite John Edwards’ MANY shortcomings, he was a true poverty advocate. And make fun of Kucinich all you want…he speaks with true passion about things. No fake Boehner tears, there.
And Katrina? Who dropped the ball on that one? Who is STILL dropping the ball on that one? Contaminated/toxic trailers for people to live in?
The Republicans preach morals, but frak behind *your* back while vilifying others. Vitter, Evangelical leader Haggard, Gingrich (affair during Lewinsky scandal), Dan Burton (illegitimate child revealed during Lewinsky scandal), McCain talking about the working class while heavily involved with the closing of DHL in Ohio (HUGE job loss), outsourcing of YOUR jobs, to name a few…
Dems aren’t perfect. Totally pansies, in many respects. But socially, they give a frak about people. You look to see who has sponsored legislation for that which truly benefits real Americans. The ones who live paycheck to paycheck. The ones who work hard (maybe without a college education).
You look over independent analysis of the tax plans and see which candidate is out for the little guy and who gives more back.
And, 888, I’ll take someone who fraks a chick in the White House over someone who, in the White House, fraks over America.
I’ll take Obama and Biden, thank you very much.
I would be very honored to have Michelle Obama as my first lady. She doesn’t steal drugs from her own charities and stuff and then has Senator hubby eek a deal with the DEA to keep her protected.
And I doubt, on any planet, that she would need to be handled by kid gloves as the McCain campaign is insisting that SarahMessiah be handled.
Sep 23, 2008 - 4:56 pm 59. clear53:Tomw:
“His policies are more well thought out and he the ability to comunicate effectively. I’m sure this will be scoffed at, but after 8 years of a stammering idiot, it’s what this country needs”
Sorry, Tom, but Obama’s eloquence, like Kerry’s intelligence and war record and Gore’s overall brilliance, has been manufactured out of whole cloth by the media. Check this video out and tell me truthfully if your man is better when unscripted than GWB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc
Thanks for another great essay, Mr. Hanson.
Sep 23, 2008 - 5:15 pm 60. james:tomw,
How can you reduce taxes for 95% of the population when only 60% pay taxes to begin with?
Sep 23, 2008 - 5:16 pm 61. clear53:How would you propose we ‘negotiate’ with Ahmadinejad? What is it you would offer him and what would you expect in return?
How is it that S. Africa has just had its coldest winter (it’s winter down there) in a hundred years?
Do you have any idea - any at all - what it takes to be a sitting governor? Of any state? Could you become one?
If George Bush had a videotape of his minister saying what Jeremiah Wright said, would you dismiss it?
Has anyone explained to you what Bush Derangement Syndrome is?
BTW, Tomw, I have lots more where that came from if you need more proof.
Sep 23, 2008 - 5:16 pm 62. TLM:“But just remeber, she’s really just a PTO Hockey mom who got elected to Governor, mostly because she’s pretty and can read a teleprompter.”
Substitute “community activist” for “PTO Hockey mom”, Senator for governor, and this quote describes Barack Obama, who is running for president, I believe.
Stanley Kurtz has an update on his research into Obama’s actions on Ayer’s board at CAC. Ayer’s almost certainly selected Obama for this position. It is simply unbelievable that the MSM refuses to investigate dealings on this board, which wasted $100 million on Chicago area schools to no benefit.
What does Palin have to offer? Possibly the right frame of mind — the moral rectitude — to help clean up our government. Look at the (current) financial crisis we’re in and the proposed bail out. Does anyone trust these people in government anymore? I don’t. Blame it on deregulation or whatever. It looks to be more complicated than that, and an economic theory alone is not the problem. The problem is the people making decisions in government and on Wall Street. We can only control the former. I bet this crisis taints the reputation of nearly every sitting member of Congress for the last 2 decades, as well as the upper echelons of both the Bush and Clinton Administrations. I fear we have been sending nothing but greedy clowns to Washington these past 16 years, and the chickens are coming home to roost at the worst possible time for us. If Sarah Palin is more than hype, and she very well may be, she could go a long way toward restoring integrity and confidence in our government. Absent a person like that in the White House, God help us all.
Sep 23, 2008 - 5:25 pm 63. HRPKathy:tomw,
Having family that lives in the UK and uses the NHS, I can tell you that you need to go beyond the surface when you discuss nationalized health. My daughter can’t get in to see a dentist in the UK until January. MRSA is rampant in the hospitals because the nurses do not have time to wash their hands.
If Canada had to provide for its own defense instead of relying on our military, they’d have to reallocate funds. We don’t have another country we can rely upon for protection - we have to spend a large portion of our GNP on defense. A Canadian friend of mine dubbed a flock of geese flying overhead ‘The Canadian Airforce’. We can’t afford a system like theirs and even if we could we wouldn’t want the unfairness inherent in their system. If you have money you get private care or go to the US.
I don’t want a trip to the doctor to resemble a trip to the DMV. No thanks. Reform insurance and medical malpractice liability and you’ll reduce costs and increase availability.
If you look at your statement that ‘we have to keep organizing’ to be better - that’s an argument for reform not for layering on more bureaucracy. We need to simplify.
You asked what Sarah Palin brings to the table. Energy expertise, a record of tax reform that focuses on the needs of the people, budgeting skills, fiscal restraint, and demonstrated integrity. She makes no effort to hide anything, as people who have met her have said “she’s the real deal”. That’s the polar opposite of an elitist. Having operated a setnet business she has one piece of knowledge Obama cannot comprehend - what it is like to earn money the hard way and keep a business going to support a family. (This is the application of Dr. Hanson’s thesis here.) If Obama had any knowledge of maintaining a business, he wouldn’t be calling small business owners ‘rich’ and promising to tax us into oblivion. That ‘tax hike that is only on the rich’ is only fine if you don’t buy things you need from businesses or if you don’t work for one. It’s the worst form of elitist language that basically says “I’m on your side you dummies” and it’s why they condescendingly make the argument that this is in ‘people’s best interest’. What people? It doesn’t level anything but it does give the government more of our hard earned money. In fact you have to be a dummy to believe him. The argument can be made that democrats are elitists because elitism works for them with their own constituency, and as long as they are robbing Peter to give it to Paul, Paul will always vote for them. It’s important to generate more Pauls and this tax policy will certainly throw more people onto the public dole.
In my previous post I stated that authenticity is a reliable predictor for behavior. I frankly haven’t a clue what Obama will do - he’s taken so many positions on the issues verbally, all I have to go on is his record because I don’t trust him to follow a plan. His record is that he voted to raise taxes 94 times. We can’t afford him. I can’t afford him.
As the elitist he is, he’s not planning on being honest with us about it either; we common folk can’t handle his ‘truth’.
Sep 23, 2008 - 6:05 pm 64. trangbang68:proud elitist please…John Edwards the true poverty advocate who drove the cost of medicare and insurance up for everyone by frivolous lawsuits, living in a 25000 square foot house. That poor mill hand.
Sep 23, 2008 - 6:22 pm 65. Oregonian:Who dropped the ball on Katrina? Start with Ray “Chocolate City” Nagin and the incompetent Dem governor.
Plenty of republican hypocrites true dat, I guess the Dems aren’t hypocrites because they never claim to be anything but degenerates( See Woody “Daddy Dearest” Allen, or the leftwing shock jock in SF molesting his daughter and indulging in kiddie porn. Not to mention Rep. Gerry Studds (Dem-Sodom) getting up close and personal with pages etc.)
I would address other of your points but why bother. You’ll vote the water walker. I won’t. I just hope your side will keep the voter fraud down this time and let the people decide.
tomw:
Obama has no policy-making experience; “his” policies are written by his advisors and delivered from a teleprompter. You think that they are sound and reasoned because they are what you already believe. The fact that you agree with Obama doesn’t mean that you are both right - it means that you are both wrong.
Economy: Deregulation is not what caused the subprime mortgage meltdown. Social engineering by the Clinton administration to change lending standards and Congressional meddling in the financial markets to force lending institutions to give mortgages to people who could not afford to repay them to gain their votes caused the financial situation we now face.
Taxes: The top 1% of income earners already pay as much in taxes as the bottom 95%. If you believe that Obama is somehow going to increase spending and reduce taxes on the “bottom” 95%, you are economically naive.
Energy: No “plan” to move away from oil will do anything in the next 20 years but ruin the US economy and destroy the standard of living that all income groups in America enjoy vis-a-vis the rest of the world. The only practical strategy to reduce our dependence on foreign sources of oil is to do all of the above: using America’s own resources of oil, oil shale, natural gas, coal, and nuclear energy while moving ahead to develop any new technologies that can be made economically effective. At this point, none of the new technologies would continue to exist without the government subsidies they enjoy.
Environment: There is no anthropogenic global warming; if there is global warming, it is caused by variations in radiation from the sun. There is increasing evidence that any warming of the earth has already stopped, and that we may be entering a period of long-term global cooling. ‘nuf said!
Foreign Policy: Diplomacy has never left the picture. Diplomacy without the resolve to act when it fails to change destructive policies is, and always has been, capitulation.
Sarah Palin is not running against Obama, although she brings more executive experience to the table. She is running against Joe Biden, a man who has spent his entire career in the Senate, where he administers his chief of staff.
The idea that George Bush is an “idiot” because he cannot articulate his policies, and that Obama is a genius because he can articulate the policies written for him from a teleprompter is political spin. Bush’s educational record in graduate school and in his military records are public knowledge. He had better grades than John Kerry, and he flew fighter jets - an activity which requires physical skill and intelligence. You have to pass intelligence tests to get into flight school (or into the military academies ala John McCain!) Barack Obama’s educational records are not available.
Sarah Palin brings a proven work ethic, a set of conservative principles demonstrated in positions of responsibility, a belief in American exceptionalism and a love of country, a respect for the sanctity of human life, and a strong faith in God: middle class virtues which resonate with voters outside of the Beltway and the Ivy League campuses. Her successful campaign experiences demonstrate that many other people believe her to be the type of politician they respect with a proven record of accomplishment, despite the best efforts of the East coast mainstream media to “bring her down!”
There’s mine.
Sep 23, 2008 - 6:36 pm 66. Sarah Rolph:tomw:
Are you about 20 years old? Because that’s the best excuse I can think of for your not realizing that all the “policy issues” you list have been standard talking points for the Democrats for years. I hate to break it to you, but they are just sound bites. Are you thinking about any of the points you have presented? Taxes, for example. Do you really think we do not already have “a tax plan that favors the lower and middle class”? If so, you have not been paying attention. At all.
I’m afraid that if you look closely you’ll see little evidence that Obama actually has a secret plan to save the world. They never do.
Your comments about Palin are foolish. You wildly assert that her selection was “hasty.” You’re obviously making that up, since you have no way of knowing anything about the inner workings of the campaign. You hurl made-up insults, that she was elected because of being pretty or reading a teleprompter (which is really quite ironic given that Obama’s looks and purported oratorical skill are his primary attractions to many; do you think he doesn’t use a teleprompter?). But the thing you should keep in mind, sir, is the way these assertions make you look. Your assumptions do not speak well for you.
What Palin brings to the table is executive experience–she has run things, she has led people and made decisions. And the decisions she has made can be evaluated, they are a matter of public record: if you look at the facts you will find she is a popular and successful governor. She also brings to the table political acumen and a strong moral character. The government, sadly, is made up of politicians. Most of them are bums. Palin stood up to corruption in her own party–she defied Ted Stevens, the Senator from her state who is on trial for corruption as we speak. She has a spine and is willing to stand up for what she believes. In addition to her executive experience, McCain the Maverick appreciates these Maverick qualities in Palin.
What were you saying Obama brings to the table?
Sep 23, 2008 - 6:43 pm 67. cedarford:Doug:
uh huh. so let me get this straight. we don’t want the educated people to run the country. lets get a regular gal, Sarah Palin, give her a quick briefing on geo politics, and send her off to negotiate with Putin, Sarkosy, Harper, and whoever it is that’s running China. -Hey I have no idea who’s running China! I’m no pansy elitist! Vote for me!
Dumb Douggie! If you had been around high performers in business, law, gov’t, the military - instead of flapping your lips on what you think is “educated” - you would find quite a few are from “non-Ivy” backgrounds.
You think Sarah Palin is “uneducated”? Well, how many “Ivy’s” of their graduating classes do you think rise to be Governor or CEO or General or Senator?
Are you saying that 96% of the “Ivy’s” who fail to reach such pinnacles are less educated, less able than Palin?
And if “education” and brains were so important to Lefties, why not select Hillary, who has a higher IQ than Obama and lots more experience and “foreign leader meetings”?
Of course the Republicans said no thanks to Romney, who has golden credentials and track record.
Republicans also went with “charisma!” over experience and brains.
As for “memorizing” foreign leader’s names, it’s a stupid journalist “gotcha!” trick. A game that past “weak” Presidents or VPs with no foreign policy experience - like FDR, Truman, JFK, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Clinton didn’t bother with. Far more important to have a rough grasp of the country’s issues affecting relations with the US, basic capabilities of the country, and an idea of the 2-8 important people you will be in contact with from that country.
And only for important countries. And you have many advisors and briefing sheets to bone up with before any visits or “Crisis”.
It’s probably a good thing that Palin has a little more qualification than Obama does, in case McCain does croak.
Sep 23, 2008 - 7:06 pm 68. Buyer’s Remorse, Caught in the Headlights and Biden’s History Lesson « Obi’s Sister:[...] least we’ll always have such mental giants to look up to, since they will never come down from their self-erected pedestals. And we can always use our Get Out of Racism Free Card when we [...]
Sep 23, 2008 - 7:11 pm 69. Tcobb:I think the real essence of America, and what is was supposed to mean, was that the elected leaders were supposed to REFLECT the wishes of the electorate. Instead, over time, we have a political class which believes, in their infinite wisdom, they have a VISION of where they would like to lead us, and they will push us there by any means possible whether we are willing or not. To these politicians the citizens aren’t really people, they’re just lab rats for their experiments in sociology. That, I think, is what most folks who decry “elitism” are talking about.
Sep 23, 2008 - 7:32 pm 70. Ron Kean:I’m happy Obama supporters come to this site. At least they’re reading VDH hopefully. This type of exchange is helpful. Come back y’all.
Bugs…’she’s not a pompous butthead’…that’s an understatement.
tomw
Economy…the problem was that existing regulations were not enforced
Taxes…if my boss gets taxed much more, he may take away my medical
Energy…dig it…drill or throw away money, throw it away
Environment…eat caribou drill ANWR
Foreign…the EU’s been talking to Iran for too many years yes years
Palin…fought corruption in her own party, got where she is on her own
Proud Elitist
You’re wrong. Republicans do care about the lower and middle class. Too much public assistance harmed the lower and middle class. Paid single women to have children. Paid too many mothers to have them.
Sep 23, 2008 - 8:00 pm 71. Olivia:Good points as usual Dr. Hanson. This election the elitism has gone so far that the Democrats have alientated members of their own party. You have party leaders like Nancy Pelosi and Donna Brazille actually stating that they don’t need Blue Collar Workers. What kind of electoral strategy is that. I guess anyone who voted for Hillary is irrelevant in Obamaland.
Sep 23, 2008 - 8:29 pm 72. McSame:America as a country is doomed if there are more citizens who believe we should be lead by regular folk than intelligent leaders with ideas. McCain voters are the same idiots who took 7 1/2 years to figure out George W Bush is terrible. Wake up and think about where our country needs to go to remain number one and not about who you do or do not like personally. And by the way Obamas family is way more stable and respectable American family than anything the republicans can offer.
Sep 23, 2008 - 9:00 pm 73. tomw:clear53: Obama off promter is 10x better than Bush on prompter.
james: The 95% figure represents the portion of the population that makes less than 250K, and if you make less than that, your taxes will go down. If you don’t pay taxes? you still don’t pay taxes. Duh.
TLM:
HRPKathy: So the healthcare system is bad in England, so you argue we shouldn’t try to make ours better? As bad as the DMV is, it’s still better than the county emergency room, which represent the health care available for 40 million americans.
Palin has energy experience? you mean oil experience. Better yet, she has “dealing with oil companies” experience. We have that now, thanks but no thanks. Budgeting skills? In Alaska where there are no state taxes and everyone in the state gets an annual oil check? The state with the highest per capita earmark funding? I’m sure that’s a budgeting nightmare.
Obama doesn’t consider small businessmen ‘rich’ as you say. Check is policy and you’ll see. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#small-business BTW, who spends money at your business? I’m guessing quite a few of your customers are in the 95% whose taxes will go down. He’s telling the truth. The reason you choose not to believe him is just stubborness.
Oregonian: You’re wrong. Clinton did change the lending standards, but the abuses went unchecked under the Bush admin. Nobody was watching the store. You’re right on energy, because solar, wind, electric vehicles. That’s a bunch of pie in the sky technology that will never happen;. right. How’s our current diplomacy going with russia, iran, north korea? ‘nuf said.
Sarah: I’m 40 (last wednesday was my birthday) - I have a wife, two kids, a dog, two cats and a mortgage. “Do you really think we do not already have “a tax plan that favors the lower and middle class”? If so, you have not been paying attention. At all.” Who’s not paying attention? Ever hear of the bush tax cuts? trickle down economics? The palin decision was absolutly hasty. it’s been stated that McCain had only a few brief conversations with her before his selection.
Sep 23, 2008 - 9:04 pm 74. Red Blooded American:Isn’t this essentially the same article as the recent Palin vs. Obama piece by the same author?
Endless “fixing toilets and chopping wood is better preparation for leadership.” Better than what? Than the normal power game leaders in both parties always play to get to the top? Frankly, this essay is incoherent. I believe Victor Hansen is probably an intelligent and well-educated fellow, but he commits the cardinal sin of reaching his conclusions first and reasoning backwards to support them. “Reasoning” in a nominal sense at least.
And it is pure horse-hockey to invoke Teddy Roosevelt as a model implying that the Bush-Cheney-McCain crew is cut of the same cloth. They are not. And Teddy Roosevelt would beat them all to within an inch of their lives and then spit on them in disgust.
Want to read a real conservative’s take on your current “man of the people” nominee John McCain, then check out http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202583.html?nav=hcmoduletmv
This elitism b.s. has got to go. About the only people paying attention are the ones afraid someone might be looking down on them (i.e., insecure people) or the cynical leaders trying to manipulate them. Propaganda. Don’t buy it.
Sep 23, 2008 - 10:23 pm 75. Judy, NYC:americans, told by the media that those who supported barry in the primaries were elites, college educated and purportedly smarter than hillary clinton supporters, actually believed it. indeed, they believe anything the media conveys that puffs them up, even “the view”, featuring the giant intellect of joy behar. their online bible is the grotesque pod that has stolen the soul of the nytimes, and huffington post, who never met an anti-american, anti-zionist, anti-semitic, muslim terrorist blogger they didn’t like. not only is barry, whose main experience is street cred, not elite, sadly for his deluded followers, neither are they. i am a democrat. but these miscreants are not getting my vote this time or maybe never. i like mccain and palin. they don’t think they are elite, and they don’t think we are either. therefore, they have some very energetic ideas about america. they also like america better than anything. and that speaks to me.
Sep 23, 2008 - 10:34 pm 76. jw:See Thomas Sowell’s THE VISION OF THE ANOINTED
Sep 23, 2008 - 10:34 pm 77. Marc Malone:“Elitism” is actually a shortening of “Intellectual Elitism”. It’s the idea that the knowledge one has gained from some elite school somehow separates one from the common masses. It’s the idea that ideas are everything. The resentment from the masses is based on the perception that character doesn’t matter to these guys. Every election cycle, the Repubs run on values, and the Dems always want to talk about “real issues”. That’s why they get beaten ‘most every time.
I’m a smart guy; I mean really, really smart (IQ 200). But I know it doesn’t mean squat if I lack character. I don’t care if the guy I meet is like Forrest Gump intellectually, as long as he’s like Forrest Gump when it comes to character. As far as I’m concerned, he’s made the grade.
I like jazz… until it gets overdone. I don’t indulge in it as a way to preen. I just like it. Same with classical music. But, I like R&B when I want to get my groove on. I hate caviar. “It’s an acquired taste.” Bull. It’s a way to preen. I don’t “like” things as a way to satisfy my own ego.
Dems don’t give a damn about the lower classes. It’s just a way to preen. It’s also a way to riches. You never get a Dem in office who made it in business, but they always get rich in government by working the system. Rich Repubs give four times as much to charity than rich Dems, man for man. They don’t do it for the glory. It’s not a way to preen. It’s authentic caring.
For the record, Gov. Palin put herself through college. She majored in braodcasting, and minored in…(wait for it)… PoliSci! When Obama decided he wanted to get into politics to make a difference, he chose… Law! The Dems keep putting up all these Harvard Lawyers for their Presidential candidate and wonder why they get beaten. Nothing but empty suits; every damned one of them! Bunch of do-nothings with inflated egos.
They’ve been indoctrinated at their elite schools. They’ve been told that they’ve graduated from an elite school, so they’re the best of the best. The man on the street knows that their diploma is so much toilet paper. Oh, it’ll get you on the fast track in government and the corporate world, because the myth has been propogated for so long, but these are exactly the fellows who have screwed up so royally in government and business.
I’ll take a Sarah Palin, any day. All she’s done is achieve, achieve, achieve. They got their average home through hard work, not through some shady deals. Character matters with her, but she doesn’t put herself above you. If you have character, you’ve made the grade.
The difference between Obama’s and McCain’s approaches is simply this: Obama tries to convince you that his way is better; McCain asks for your approval. One is an intellectaul elitist: the other is not.
Obama uses a nuanced approach, viewing a problem from every point of view… except right and wrong! McCain sees things first in right and wrong, then looks at other qualifiers, if necessary.
That’s the problem with Dems and other intellectual elites: they don’t seem to know right from wrong! That’s why the Hollywood idiots turn off the masses when it comes to their politics. They live in la-la land (another name for Alan Colmes’ Liberaland). This is the essenc of the culture wars. Libs are about ideology, and Cons are about values. Character matters!
Sep 23, 2008 - 11:15 pm 78. Brian H:Obama, I’ve noticed, is real big on describing what “we need”, and real small on how to get it. When he does venture into “how”, it doesn’t hang together. There’s always the political equivalent of “unobtainium” required. And the background tone and message is always the same: “I’m wonderful for wanting these things, and you can be, too. Just Believe On Me!”
I’m told the AA slang for his type is a “Slick Rick”. All ’shine’, all the time.
Sep 24, 2008 - 12:45 am 79. Brian H:tomw;
I’ll let one example of your gormlessness stand for all:
“it’s been stated that McCain had only a few brief conversations with her before his selection.”
That may have been stated, but actually he had a high-power team of investigators in Alaska in July vetting her, for a couple of weeks or more. He knew perfectly well what he was getting.
Sep 24, 2008 - 12:49 am 80. Paul from Florida:Tom:
Maybe it’s just you, Tom. I remember 15 years ago picking up VDH’s “The Other Greeks” in a dollar remainder bin. After I read it, I took it to my local Hell’s Angel Bar and the bar tender never gave it back such that I had to bribe his son to steal it back from his dad. Maybe I run in the wrong circles but know two handfuls of tradesmen with 4k plus book collections, albeit random in subject matter.
So, I sit in the bar and the bikers talk of weld up their custom bikes, the carpenters of wrapping 7 inch cherry moldings on stockbrokers summer homes and the mechanics discuss which laptop is best to run the diagnostics on Japanese turbo diesels, while the cardiac surgeon plays some Keno.
I have heard tell there is cocaine in Manhattan, even some universities too.
Noting wrong with a fight, had my last one in my 40’s and it felt great, but then I favor bringing back dueling, so I might be touched.
Sep 24, 2008 - 4:02 am 81. Broadsword:Some weeks ago, the Obamaness was heckled by people in his audience, whose character is not prescribed by skin color, although they are usually described only in terms of skin color. He replied to their accusations of doing nothing about this or that by saying, “I talked about that. I was the first to talk about that.” Think about what that. He is equating talking with doing. Some of our true elites, that warrior class, the Marine Corps, are elite because of what they do. They are what they do, not what they say.
Sep 24, 2008 - 5:05 am 82. TLM:Red Blooded American,
Endless “fixing toilets and chopping wood is better preparation for leadership.” Better than what?
Perhaps better than the so-called leaders we have now, in the Administration, Congress and the business world. That’s not meant to be a partisan statement.
Marc Malone,
“…these are exactly the fellows who have screwed up so royally in government and business.”
I agree. By “these” read “elites”, short hand for the “educated” types who theoretically advance civilization on their shoulders. Looking back over these past two decades, one has to conclude there is either something lacking in their education, or something wrong with the type of person being educated. Or both.
The ending of the Cold War has brought all of America’s weaknesses to the fore. Regardless of who wins this election, we are facing a radical change in American society. I still believe the fundamental problem in this country lies in our K - College education system. The system is too politicized and we no longer have a critical mass of citizens who can think critically.
Sep 24, 2008 - 5:31 am 83. Brian Richard Allen:RCP: Given that (before the post 1965 influx of the third world’s legal and criminal alien ineducable began dragging it into the low 80s) America’s mean IQ is (was) 100, surely you are not surprised to learn that more than half of our nation’s population is of less than average intelligence?
(Or, come to that, that Al-Fredo Gore-leone, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and B Milhous bin B Hussayn bin Hussayn Muhummud Ubama are potentially four of the world’s most dangerous dullards?)
God forbid that any one of them is ever elected to any administrative office. Amen.
Brian Richard Allen
Sep 24, 2008 - 5:45 am 84. RJ:Los Angeles - Califobamacated 90028
PROUD ELITEST:
Ok, I’ve seen some people who talk and think like you during my lifetime. I like your style, it’s filled with guts and glory, right?
Let’s say you and me go to a little US military camp, take a few months getting in shape, practicing up to date fighting tactics, then we transfer to Afghanistan, go out to the front lines where the sh*t hits the fan every day, and…play like real men!
That would be something a “proud elitist” would be up for, right? Now don’t John Kerry me here, ole boy (or girl…who cares). And don’t scream “Swiftboating” either.
How about becoming a “PROUD AMERICAN”…would that be something you could handle…and would be willing to fight and die for…?
Oh yea, you can’t pick the war you like, just like you only get to eat what’s on the menu, the chef doesn’t cook special for us regular soldiers.
I’ve met cowards like you all my life, pal. Tremble your little sorry ass home and get in that closet you love so well!
Talk some more to those spirits who put their lives out front instead of hiding behind words.
Sep 24, 2008 - 5:56 am 85. Sarah:McCain chose Palin because of her actual DOCUMENTED executive experience!
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:05 am 86. MarkD:NO, he did not choose her to appeal to those women put off by the Dems snubbing Hilary. This is the most ridiculous excuse I have heard to date considering Sarah Palin’s views and Hilary’s views are worlds apart. IF, and only if, some women were brought in to the McCain camp for the sole reason that he chose Palin they are voting for the wrong reason and they didn’t have a logical, viable opinion anyway. That would be on the same level as a black person voting for Obama just because he’s “black” (less than 7% so he couldn’t even qualify for minority status through the government but we won’t go into that).
I do believe that McCain chose Sarah, in part, to energize the Republican base which was a wise choice. Not all conservative Republicans have been please with McCain’s “reaching across the aisle” regardless of the issue and he needed to assure these voters that he was going to choose someone that very closely echoed their conservative voice and Christian values.
Whoever is pulling Barry’s puppet strings know that they made a SEVERE miscalculation in brushing aside Hilary and they are scrambling like a cat in a litter box to “cover up” their blunder.
“tomw” - if you are a good judge of character sometimes it only takes meeting someone once to know what kind of person they are - that is beside the point. No one besides John McCain and Sarah Palin know how many times they spoke before he chose her as his running mate, regardless of what has been “stated.” This is yet another rabbit trail designed to lead people away from what the Dems lovingly refer to as “the real issues.”
McCain’s age is another ridiculous excuse, you and/or I could be hit by a car walking across the street tomorrow - would the possibility of this happening keep you locked in your basement for the remainder of your life? I’m guessing the answer is a resounding “NO.”
Being able to communicate effectively is something that can be learned by a few public speaking classes - just because someone has read a book on how to difuse a bomb doesn’t mean they are qualified to do it in real life!
I happen to completely agree with you that we need regulation in our financial sector due to the debacle that we are now facing - But, to be fair is the Dems buddy Bill Clinton that got us into this mess in the first place with all his “reforms” so that people who could not afford to own a home were given the loans anyway. I light of this reagrdless of who is elected, your and my taxes ARE NOT going to be
cut so they BOTH need to stop promising it.
B.O. does not want to explore the options for energy that we have avaiable right out our back door because he’s worried about pissing off all his environmentalist friends - after you’re paying $10 a gallon for gas I’m sure you’ll change your mind as well.
Diplomacy is over-rated and worthless, if a man walked in to your house with a gun and demanded all your money are you going to try and “talk” him out of it? NO. you either give him what he wants or you pull out a bigger gun. Political correctness is bullsh*t and it’s all the ridiculous pandering that has got us into some of the mess we’re in now anyway.
This whole elite attitude annoys me.
My SATs were 99th percentile, both math and verbal. I was my HS salutatorian. I served honorably. I have travelled extensively through Europe and Asia. I lived abroad. I speak a foreign language. I graduated from a well respected college, with high honors. I remain married to the same woman. My wife and I raised children, all of whom are college graduates, none of whom have ever been in trouble. I have never defaulted on anything. I have never been fired from a job. I was never arrested. I pay all my bills, on time.
I’m just an ordinary person, who has had some good luck. I am capable of running my own life, without the assistance of those who believe, despite evidence to the contrary, that they are better than I am.
I have respect for knowledge and fine craftsmanship. I’ve met some great people. I’ve met more people with great opinions of themselves. I can tell the difference.
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:17 am 87. Larry J:i]How many times have you heard terms like “trailer trash” or “90% of Americans are morons”?[/i]
From Obama? Never.
Saying “We are the change we’re waiting for” - isn’t elitism, that’s just a campaign slogan. It’s self empowerment. It’s “We can do it.” Is this really the best example you have of something Obama has said that tells you he thinks he’s better than the rest of us?
From Obama, no. I’ve never heard him say that. I have heard that a lot from liberals, though. I did hear Obama talk about how people desperately cling to guns and religion. He didn’t expect that little tidbit to get out. Who knows what else he has said when the microphones weren’t present.
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:23 am 88. Brian Richard Allen:tomw states to clear53 (that) “(anti-American mobbed-up Marxist murtadd Muslim Arab African, B Milhous bin B Hussayn bin Hussayn Muhummud) Obama, off promter, (sic) is 10x better than (United States of America’s President and Armed-Forces Commander-In-Chief, George Walker) Bush ‘on prompter.’”
Which is arrant nonsense.
For all his imperfections and that he often errs, Mr Bush is guided by principle and by the intellectual and moral integrity that defines his character and is capable of original thought and of holding his own in any conversation. B Milhous, on the other hand, is a mommy and loathsome and fearsome spouse-steered simp — an empty suit. He is a simple Saul-Alinsky-aligned ideologue whose graspings for the simplest words and phrases behind which to hide his hatred of himself and of his own culture, his by rote remembered Marxism — and his virulent “reverend” Wright racism — are an embarrassment to himself, an indictment of those who manage and who mind him — and a bloody affront to the rest of us.
As are the rest of tomw’s as-asinine outpourings.
Dear Lord, please save us from the manifestation of evil that is the modern “Democratic” party. And see the Obamas back safely to Chicago’s south side.
Brian Richard Allen
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:30 am 89. Donnie Mac Leod:Los Angeles - Califobamacated 90028
One of the tricks I loved about Shakespeare was his ability to give the jester credit for seeing through all the elitists and snobs of his time. Elitist snobs often think they can marginalize the so called lesser folk through the insinuation that those working stiffs lack thinking prowess. In fact those working stiffs have cultural debates that are deeper and less bias then the think tanks in main stream Media Board Rooms. Those working stiff offer one hell of a lot more honest unbiased thinking then those found in some of our universities today.
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:34 am 90. Matt:Hey, guess what? If being “elite” means being educated, I want elite people running the country. I don’t care if they come from Yale, if they are self-educated, or if they gained their knowledge of history, foreign policy, ideas, economics, etc, through a magical process of osmosis. Not the point.
You know what I don’t want running the country? IGNORANT, “God-fearing,” down-to-earth folk. Because “folksy wisdom” is utterly useless.
Thomas Jefferson and Abe Lincoln would run rings around Sarah Palin AND John McCain. But I guess they lacked “character.”
So please, go ahead. Vote for your next-door neighbor because he likes huntin’ bear. Vote for your drinking buddy. Vote for your kids’ Den Masters. Enjoy the spectacular results.
Brownie, you’re doing a heck of job.
Sep 24, 2008 - 7:19 am 91. fred:I like Marc Malone’s explanation of elitism. Best on the board up to this point. He talks about how character matters. He also touches on my theme about the inflated sense of intellectual superiority and intellectual sloth that one tends to get at the elite schools.
He’s also spot on about who actually does give a damn about working people and the poor. When I was on the Left, in my younger days, I did not know any other socialists who actually gave to charities. And these college professors and grad students tended to look down on the working people as sheeple who did not know what was truly in their own interests.
Sep 24, 2008 - 7:32 am 92. carla:Here’s the ad that the Obama doesn’t want seen:
Sep 24, 2008 - 7:35 am 93. tomw:WATCH HILLARY RIP OBAMA - HERE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQadAAlK9c4
RJ: “Talk some more to those spirits who put their lives out front instead of hiding behind words.”
You really need to take a step back and see the irony in your words, tough guy.
MarkD: Your obviously an elitist, and proud of it as you should be.
Sarah: BO doesn’t want to drill because he knows it isn’t worth it. If they gave the OK today to start drilling, best estimates say it’ll be 2013 before one drop of oil is seen. Then how much of an effect will it have? It’s estimated that it will increase world wide production by less than 1%. Since oil is world wide commodity, the prices are determined by the world wide supply. How much effect do you really believe a 1% increase in production will make?
Sep 24, 2008 - 8:38 am 94. Sioux Lady:I saw the back of Sarah’s head in a photo with Henry Kissinger, today. With the sight of her fully up-swept hair-do, the last tumbler fell into place and unlocked the door in my mind behind which was who she has reminded me all of this time. Audrey Hepburn! Twas the glasses that hid the resemblance. Who didn’t love Audrey Hepburn? Who didn’t love Eliza Doolittle? Remember her coming down the steps in the white ball-gown and up-swept do? Remember the uneducated little flower girl and the snob professor? Remember who (like Audrey) had the heart of gold and the moxie? Remember who sang that he had grown “accustomed to her face” because, being a professor, he couldn’t quite admit that he admired and respected an uneducated little flower girl? I’d vote for Audrey/Eliza/Sarah over ‘Enry ‘Iggins/Obama anyday. Actually, I’d vote for Alfred P. Doolittle before I’d vote for Obama.
Sep 24, 2008 - 9:06 am 95. Bridget:Dr Hanson - as usual, a well-written essay. I like to think that one should value and attain as many experiences in life as possible, whether they be intellectual or practical. It helps in decision making along one’s life. As for elitism, I’ve realized that many people have many types of experiences and knowledge and you never know when their experience/knowledge might be helpful to you.
To the poster regarding elite schools and state schools: my experience has been that the culling of the herd is done at different times. The elite schools limit the number of entrants and then work hard to make sure those students finish - justifying their selection decisions. The state schools accept most and then work to limit those who finish. My experience was in engineering—-each had a different process but similar outcomes.
Sep 24, 2008 - 9:38 am 96. Sarah:“tomw”
Sep 24, 2008 - 10:48 am 97. Ron Kean:If everyone had that kind of defeatist attitude America wouldn’t be the great nation it is today. How many hundreds of thousands of prototypes do inventors have to go through before they eventually get it right? Just because you aren’t going to see results tomorrow doesn’t mean that it’s not worth investing in, IN OUR COUNTRY, not the middle east! B.O. also didn’t think the surge was worth it and we all know how that turned out!
McSame
Idiots? Who are you?
Red Blooded American
‘I believe Victor Hansen is probably an intelligent and well-educated fellow…’ and you are…?
Do you fine folk believe Obama didn’t hear or cheer for Rev. Wright? Do you think Ayres was just a guy who lives in the neighborhood?
The reason we don’t want Obama is because there is evidence to support the premise that he and his closest friends hate America, finds America to be despicable, mean, cruel, oppressive, unfair, worse than the aggregate of the UN, murderous, greedy, imperialist, colonalist, and cold. I don’t care what he says. I don’t know how you can believe him.
McCain has Medal of Honor recipients speaking for him. McCain worked with Democrats and fought Democrats. McCain worked with Republicans and fought Republicans. He is truly independent.
Palin came from nothing and fought and won and cleaned up politics in Alaska and has the highest approval rating of any governor. She ran a city. She ran a state. We believe that experience far surpasses being a community organizer or leading the Chicago Annenberg Challange (into the ground)
Dear Professor,
To take the pig analogy one step further, your insight to many is like pearls before swine.
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:06 am 98. By requests: Noonan and Me | The Anchoress:[...] Victor Davis Hanson: Elitism, the Culture Wars and the Campaign. [...]
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:13 am 99. JT:Mr. Hanson:
As your team so often does, rather than define “elitism” or “elites” with … oh, I don’t know… A DICTIONARY, you have elected to just make up your own self-serving definition. I am sure that you have a really good reason though - I mean we all know how liberally biased that Webster’s Dictionary is. I know that guys like you don’t like to let facts and other nettlesome things like reality get in the way of a “good story”, but perhaps you could exercise the intellectual honesty in your next column. In your column, you claim that “Elitism itself cannot be defined necessarily by social status, money, blue-chip degrees, or tony zip codes—though all that can make an elitist’s task much easier than can a CSU Bakersfield BA and residence in Oildale.” It may be true that elitism cannot “necessarily” be defined by the attributes you list, but as the actual definition below suggests, these terms sure do help to define the word. As hard as it may be for you and your congregation of enthusiastic “dittoheads” assembled here on your blog, let’s just try to acknowledge that facts matter. And among these facts that matter is the fact that, in the English language, words actually have commonly understood and verifiable definitions - in fact, they are most often found in a dictionary. So next time you want to conveniently create your own definitions for words in order to shape them around your argument, perhaps you should just consult your closest dictionary. And don’t worry about those crazy liberal institutions like Webster and Oxford maintaining a corner on the definitions market. I understand that Fox News is going to publish a competing dictionary complete with conservative definitions.
Let’s compare your definition of elitism to Webster’s.
Here is your’s:
Rather, elitism is a state of mind. It is a world view in which one’s refinements from the commons—whether they are natural or acquired tastes and interests, whether they be intellectual, musical, artistic, architectural, or simply social—are seen as exclusive rather than inclusive.
Here are Webster’s definitions of Elitism and Elite:
Main Entry: elit·ism
Pronunciation: \ā-ˈlē-ˌti-zəm, i-, ē-\
Function: noun
Date: 1947
1: leadership or rule by an elite
2: the selectivity of the elite ; especially : snobbery
3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite
— elit·ist \-ˈlē-tist\ noun or adjective
Main Entry: elite
Pronunciation: \ā-ˈlēt, i-, ē-\
Function: noun
Etymology: French élite, from Old French eslite, from feminine of eslit, past participle of eslire to choose, from Latin eligere
Date: 1823
1 asingular or plural in construction : the choice part : cream bsingular or plural in construction : the best of a class csingular or plural in construction : the socially superior part of society d: a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence e: a member of such an elite —usually used in plural
2: a typewriter type providing 12 characters to the linear inch
— elite adjective
So, essentially your definition of “elitism” is “a world view in which one’s refinements from the commons…are seen as exclusive rather than inclusive.” Now, please help us all to find something in the Webter’s definition that refers to “one’s refinements from the commons” or a world view that such refinements are “exclusive rather than inclusive.” Shockingly, I don’t see it.
I know it is hard for your team to deal with, but facts matter, words matter, and honesty matters - including intellectual honesty.
Do better.
Sep 24, 2008 - 12:34 pm 100. view from afar:TLM I actually live in a country where liberté, égalité, fraternité is the motto ( not what you wrote) and no I haven’t read any further…and guess what it doesn’t work as well it is presented by the US media…and guess what, most Americans who come to live here and just love the French way, miss what life is actually like for the majority of the French, making um what is it an average of 700-800 euros a month…( I am quoting from memory that amount earlier this year)…and I just heard on the radio the other morning that our current French president is up for honors as the best leader of the free world?…I don’t remember the election vote for that one!
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:07 pm 101. Roderick Reilly:So please lay down and be quiet unless you really know from experience what you are talking about! As one French commentator said during the discussions on the constitution for the EU(europe) the American constitution is based on alot of ideas that the French themselves missed(unfortunately) in creating their proper “constitution(s). The French are on their 5th Republic since their revolution in 1789-the year we voted our constitution and elected and George Washington to office. So which country is doing better?
And to top off my rant, the point of the article here is about elitism in the left, which I find more and more true every time I go home and talk with my left leaning friends and family members…as I have a lowly university degree in agriculture, and live on oh my gosh a farm…and I actually seem to be the only one who thinks about any information presented from anywhere, and come to my own conculsion based on what I have experienced and thought about not always in line with the glorious ELITE mind set of oh I learned that, let me handle it for you…so if anyone else has said similar things, sorry but if Europeans were well so right about all these things as Obama seems to think they are why is everything here still not utopia?
My late father, God bless him, was an “elitist” of sorts, even though he was a mid-level federal employee who was the first one in his entire side of the family to get a college degree (Columbia).
Before I got mugged repeatedly by reality, or had heard the expression “Be Careful What You Wish For — You May Get It,” I sided with my father in looking forward to a Golden Age of Secular Humanist Enlightenment.
Those college kids holding up clipboards with petitions for Greenpeace or Obama are elitists despite the fact they are (for the moment) of modest income and struggling circumstances. Obama was born an elitist.
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:09 pm 102. tomw:Sarah: Defeatist? What are you talking about? It almost sounds like you’re supporting Obama, because he is the one with the plan to invest 15 Billion in renewable energy sources. That’s how we’ll get off the middle east oil. Drilling for oil would only serve to prolong our addiction, and wont make any significant impact on our dependence of foreign oil. BO also didn’t think going to Iraq was a good idea, and we know how that turned out.
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:30 pm 103. Red Blooded American:Ron Kean:
“‘I believe Victor Hansen is probably an intelligent and well-educated fellow…’ and you are…?”
I’m an American and taxpayer with an opinion who does not violate the law and pounds nails and chops wood and owns several guns. My opinion is that McCain and many of his apologists and supporters are incoherent and desperately scrambling to justify things they would have condemned a week before had they not received direction from the actions and statements of their guiding light, the train wreck that is the McCain campaign. Now go ahead and repeat your attacks, it’s fine with me.
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:50 pm 104. TLM:view from afar,
I was not spoofing the French motto, nor calling for a French Revolution in this country. As you can tell from these posts, fraternite is abandoned during our election process.
As another poster mentioned, snobbery is certainly a facet of what is meant by an Elitist in this essay (I believe), though there are other connotations to Elitism not connected with that word.
JT,
Spare us the semantic argument. We know what the literal definition of “elite” is. Personally, I’m not disputing the value of a college education per se. The problem with colleges/universities nowadays is the overwhelming bias toward a liberal political philosophy, coupled with a complete erosion in the kind of academic rigor which develops logical/critical thinking. Most profs I know say this, commentators on this site verify it at their institutions, and VDH has been writing about this for some time.
You may disagree with the gist of what I just wrote, but don’t bother giving me a discourse on your opinion of what logic is, or a dictionary definition. You either get it or you don’t.
Sep 24, 2008 - 2:42 pm 105. RJ:TOMW:
I always love those who find the need to correct others while offering up a simpleminded solution they can hide within. I’m not a tough guy Tom W, but I have been tough at times in my life. Warrior spirits (like Hack, et al.) are what I suggested my good friend Proud Elitist should confer with while in his closet…
Maybe you know what goes on in such a closet.
I love those who need to find and practice nuance in all their thoughts and offerings… It’ll always be something with such people.
Sep 24, 2008 - 3:08 pm 106. Marc Malone:It’s one of those early signs you are dealing with someone who thinks he/she is “elite” perhaps.
JT - Your dictionary diatribe was truly confusing. You seem to be making the other fellow’s point. Still, I shall attempt to clarify. Yes living in a tony neighborhood can help establish one’s elitism, but it doesn’t define it. It simply depends on how you USE it. If you use it to look down your nose at someone else, then it becomes elitism.
Another example of elitism is the tone in your posting. It’s filled with sarcasm. One can just see the sneer at the unwashed masses on this blog. What did you call us: dittoheads? Please sneer a little louder. Some of us missed it.
Sep 24, 2008 - 3:16 pm 107. JT:TLM,
Sep 24, 2008 - 3:28 pm 108. JT:Spare me and the rest of the thinking world your willful ignorance of reality and facts. If, like Mr. Hanson, you want to engage in vast over-generalizations and label higher education or the media as “liberally biased” without citing to anything beyond your personal (and obviously biased) observation, that’s fine. But don’t expect the rest of us out here in the world of critical thought (the “elitist world” as you and Mr. Hanson would say) to accept or be persuaded by an argument so utterly devoid of any empirical evidence. (i.e. “The problem with colleges/universities nowadays is the overwhelming bias toward a liberal political philosophy, coupled with a complete erosion in the kind of academic rigor which develops logical/critical thinking. Most profs I know say this, commentators on this site verify it at their institutions, and VDH has been writing about this for some time.”) I know, I know … I just don’t get it, right? Because “to get it”, like you, I would have to “just know I am right” or “feel it in my gut” like GW Bush. My point is that Mr. Hanson crafted a definition around his argument, so he could apply it to Barack Obama and meanwhile exclude the likes of John McCain, George Bush, and others on the right, including those in the right-wing punditry class, like Bill Kristol. The fact that the right gets mileage from this silly “liberal elites” argument is laughable in light of the personalities that constitute the politically and economically powerful class on the right. But that is the reason why people like you and Mr. Hanson make the “liberal elite” argument right? Because being on offense means you don’t have to defend right-wing ideologies that gave us Phil Gramm’s 1999 deregulation of investment banks and eviceration of Glass Steigal or Chris Cox’s SEC that lowered capital requirements for investment houses from 1/12th to as much as 1/40th of holdings. Again, I know your team believes and Fox News has all but proven that if you keep saying “liberal elite” long enough and loud enough it will make it true. But facts are stubborn things, and our current economic woes exemplify my point. As much as conservatives may want to deny reality, the facts are that conservative elites and their philosophy were largely responsible for bringing us this financial collapse. Their expressed view during their 1999 deregulation was that “no regulation” of financial markets was superior to any regulation regardless of how well-taylored they were. Those are the fact, my friend. You either get them, or you don’t.
Mr. Malone,
On your first point, please see my response to TLM. If you still don’t understand. I cannot help you.
To your second point, I would agree that my post is filled with sarcasm, just like countless others on this blog, including your’s posted at 11:15 pm Sep 23rd. The fact that you can “just see the sneer at the [so-called] unwashed masses on this blog” makes me wonder if you are just a little paranoid. I have sneered about nothing, but I don’t suppose that fact matters to you either. Because that comment was just a rhetorical cover, wasn’t it? Instead, as is the case with your critisms of Barack Obama, the real purpose of your suggestion that I am “sneering at you with sarcasm” is that you would like to create this victim mentality for conservatives like yourself and those who agree with you. I suppose that is because you feel such an “onslaught” of liberal and/or progressive ideas just opressing you at every turn. Could we just stop with the myth? I disagree with Mr. Hanson’s column and views expressed, as I disagree with yours. But what I took most exception to is Mr. Hanson’s effort to create his own reality by just making up his own definitions to support his theory and argument. There has to be some objective fact in the world, Mr. Malone…wouldn’t you agree? You with your 200 point IQ.
Sep 24, 2008 - 3:50 pm 109. tomw:RJ: apparently you don’t understand irony. Accusing someone of hiding behind words, while only providing words in exchange. You talk tough, as though that somehow emboldens your argument. It doesn’t. You’re just an internet tough guy, who hides behind his words.
With all this talk of closets, is something on your mind? Do you think about man-on-man love often? Hmmm. I wonder why?
Sep 24, 2008 - 3:52 pm 110. JT:Sarah,
“Diplomacy is over-rated and worthless, if a man walked in to your house with a gun and demanded all your money are you going to try and “talk” him out of it? NO. you either give him what he wants or you pull out a bigger gun. Political correctness is bullsh*t and it’s all the ridiculous pandering that has got us into some of the mess we’re in now anyway.”
Did you really write that? So I suppose that we should axe the State Department and all its foreign missions on consulates around the world. We’re gonna have to double or triple the size of each military branch and the Pentagon in light of this new “no diplomacy” policy to have “a bigger gun”, as you put it. That probably means reinstituting the draft. But if we just stay on offense with the “kill em all and let god sort them out” doctrine, then we really don’t need the CIA or any other part of the intelligence aparatus - so we can save some cash there.
And just a clarification - when you say “Political correctness is bullsh*t and it’s all the ridiculous pandering that has got us into some of the mess we’re in now anyway” - I just want to be clear on what you mean. If by “political correctness” you mean permitting our government to premptively attack another country without proper preparation or justification, then I think I agree. And if by “ridiculous pandering” you mean permitting a Republican controlled Congress to evicerate a regulatory structure of the investment banking community that has led to the worst and most costly financial crisis of all time, then I think I agree with you again.
If that is not what you mean, then I guess I don’t agree.
Sep 24, 2008 - 4:46 pm 111. clear53:Brian Richard Allen: Well said.
tomw: In your last post, you were very successfully describing yourself. Keep up the good work, my friend, especially your fine application of the left-lib rule that stipulates – when you are clearly losing an argument – the best thing to do is to jump in the gutter and immaturely question the other person’s sexuality.
Sep 24, 2008 - 5:07 pm 112. Ron Kean:Red Blooded American
‘I’m an American and taxpayer with an opinion…’ Me too but I only own one revolver. I’m a VDH fanatic and when people condescend to him, it rankles me.
I won’t repeat my attacks. I’ll launch new ones.
I think Obama is a front man. He was a front man for Tony Rezko, William Ayres, ACORN, and a host of others. Now he’s a front man for George Soros and everyone else who knows he’s a player and who wants power big time including Hollywood and the media.
Obama is a great speaker. He’s got a great smile and a resounding baritone voice. His speeches are as lofty, positive and ethereal as they are thin and forgettable. He’s an entertainer and the girls swoon. McCain will fire subordinates. Obama’s subordinates will hide behind his facade but they are the power.
His ties to those who hate the establishment are known. He has ties to those who espouse violence. Actually, the ‘left’ is known for advocating violent means of change. The ‘right’ is more within the legal framework.
Like an overly enthusiastic religious convert, he embraced the radicalism of the 60’s. Down with ‘the man.’ Power to the people right on. Tune in. Turn on. Drop out. But he didn’t drop out. He became a player. 30 people went to Alaska to dig up dirt but only 1 went to the library of the University of Chicago.
Ayres admitted being a ’small ‘c’ communist.’ Axelrod’s mother wrote for a magazine that espoused communism. Communism doesn’t bring an ideal state of equality. It brings a few to power and overrides the freedom that made the US different from Russia, China, Cuba, etc. I believe his backers want power and think Obama can hide them behind the facade. At least in the beginning.
McCain seems to be a weak organizer. But he did command a squadron of fighters. He served the government. He risked his life for the government. He was a hero and everybody knows it. People everywhere respect him. People know him. Obama has too much that’s hidden.
Obama’s career started by getting money for a slumlord and he joined ideological radicals who knew how to operate within a communist style framework. He was never a man of the majority of people. He was always an insider.
I think the last 8 years have been great for me and just about everybody I know including Obama. Money, growth, security, safety, and more. I don’t want change and I don’t want to give George Soros, communist leaning radicals, Hollywood, and the ancient media anything.
I really want the next 8 years to be just like the last.
Sep 24, 2008 - 5:23 pm 113. Marc Malone:Okay, JT, I’ve read your posts, and re-read my own.
I see no sarcasm in my previous post. While I used some strong language in expressing my contempt for those who have great education in “leading” Universities, but who come out lacking character, I didn’t use the snotty hyperbole required for sarcasm.
Your posts continue to show the condescending intellectual elitism that so annoys the rest of us. Your post towards TLM showed the very thing I spoke of when I said that liberal Dems always want to talk about “real issues”, and simply brush off as invalid our concerns about character being THE issue. Liberal Dems never get it. We might as well be speaking in tongues.
Others reading this post will understand what I say, but you never will, it seems.
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:30 pm 114. fred:Marc,
Character does not matter to these people. Trust me, I know. I used to be on the Left back in college and through the mid-Eighties. They don’t believe in character and solid principles, only positions and rationalizations. They are into power. And they are into being the “enlightened ones” who, like seen in many of Lenin’s posters, shows us The Way.
Signed,
Just an educated “bitter clinger to guns and religion.”
Sep 24, 2008 - 6:51 pm 115. Javelin:We are more like a nation of couch potatoes & mall walkers who either imagine ourselves some rugged outdoorsman or sophisticated man of the world. Dunno, but the anti-intellectual, anti-elitism reverse snobbery, egged on by egg-ead intellectuals like VD Hanson, got us Bush. So maybe we should stop buying into simple minded gun toting cowboy poseurs. Is moose hunting, where the animal has no natural fear of man , some sort of qualification? Hanson is the uber anti-intellecual intellectual, nothing more than the right’s fave antiquity quoting hack. He is there to make all the ignorant geeks feel smart with his classical allusions.
Sep 24, 2008 - 7:38 pm 116. Javelin:All you reverse snobs who treasure the idiocy and commonness of middle america, you gave us Bush. So maybe some elitism and sophistication isn’t a bad thing. VD Hanson is the worse sort of hypocrite.
Sep 24, 2008 - 7:40 pm 117. Javelin:JT is making some really good points but most of the ugly, abusive narrow minded posters here can’t rebutt except in cheap talk show insults they gleaned from fellow know-nothings. Most of you are so stupid you don’t deserve to have an opinion at all. Calling you anti-intellectual bullies is charitable. VD Hanson is an intellectual who sold out pandering to all the gun toting militaristic geeks who think “300″ is the paradigm for foreign policy and paintball and RPG games are high culture. God, I have never read such self righteousness and ignorance.
Sep 24, 2008 - 7:49 pm 118. tomw:clear53: “the best thing to do is to jump in the gutter and immaturely question the other person’s sexuality.”
I think you must have intended to address the original gutter jumper.
RJ: “..are what I suggested my good friend Proud Elitist should confer with while in his closet…
Maybe you know what goes on in such a closet. “
Sep 24, 2008 - 9:29 pm 119. Marc Malone:Javelin, perhaps not everyone here can put forth terribly cogent arguments, but that also applies to left-wing blog sites. That doesn’t make them stupid. It makes them normal. They also might be smart in other ways.
Now you’ve come in here, and have begun to rant, casually tossing about banal characterizations. You’re the exact kind of person the article discusses. “When you throw a stone into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit.”
You’re clearly educated, but are incredibly rude in defending your snobbery. Your statements are amazingly emotional and lacking reason.
Maybe where you’re from, we’re a nation of couch potatoes. That’s your experience, but is that necessarily true of those people discoursing here? You don’t know.
Yes, such as we gave you Bush… as the alternative was Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000. I assume you’d've rather had one of them. History will judge Bush, and will probably find him to be an average-to-good President, with ups and downs like many others. Personally, I’d like to have had someone else, but he was the best option available, sadly.
Intellectual elites like to use that trite phrase, “reverse snobbery”. They don’t understand that snobbery is about exclusiveness. This idea of raw values is available to anyone, whereas in comparison, an elite education is not. You just think we’re being snobbish, but the door is open to anyone. All one needs do to enter is to demonstrate good character and values.
Oddly, you will find that there are many highly educated people amongst us. We’re not all stupid, inbred rubes, but you’ll never see that. You can’t fathom that intelligent, educated people could possibly agree with the rubes. This another sign of elitism: the idea of false consciousness. To you, the writer is a traitor. He sold out. He’s pandering. He couldn’t possibly actually believe what he’s writing. Doesn’t he know which side he’s SUPPOSED to be on?
“High culture” is a phrase that is the very symbol of elitism. You might want to avoid that phrase, or us rubes will vote you off the island.
For my money, you and JT failed to make any valid points, whatsoever. You simply regurgitated a higher-vocabulary level of talking points, likely implanted by your elite education. Neither of you wish to attempt to understand that perhaps we have a point: that there’s more to politics than just policy issues. We can understand your policy issues and debate them with you, you can’t understand our character and values issues. I feel sorry for you.
Sep 24, 2008 - 10:41 pm 120. BeCarefulYourHypocricyIsShowing:All this obsession with “elitism,” this ridiculous defensiveness, this immense insecurity over traits you believe you are being ridiculed and looked down upon for, this claim that you are in fact superior, more authentic, pragmatic, and useful in the world than those you insist believe themselves to be superior, this continual and widespread stereotyping of those you claim stereotype others as unenlightened simpletons. Why, it almost looks as if the “elite”-basher doth protest too much.
The caricature you paint and the thoughts you put in others’ heads in this post suggests it is you alone who is preoccupied with what you consider elitism and with whether or not you and yours measure up to standards that ultimately are merely your own. And your insistence that elitism takes “center stage” in this campaign suggests it is you who is obsessed with elitism.
Elite simply means the best. What you describe is snobbishness and exclusivity–the exact traits your self righteous, judgmental, stereotypical, snide tone and content reeks of. Your practice of the exact same behaviors you attack suggests that it is you who is the snob, as well as hypocrite, demonstrating the traits you condemn, even at the very instant you deride them.
In fact, nearly every comment supporting this post is one you’d tear apart as elitist if the same type of nasty, stereotypical, judgmental, and empty generalizations were directed toward you. Yet you can exhibit the same snobbish behavior you claim to take issue with, but it is others who are the snobs?
You say being elite isn’t about being wealthy (if it were, your Republican leaders and many of their supporters and advocates would have to be called elite wouldn’t they?), educated, intellectual, or powerful but that it is thinking oneself superior due one’s preferences and excluding and not appreciating those deemed inferior. Read your post again, as well as most of the supportive comments, with that definition in mind, and think again about who actually is the elite (aka snob) as you’ve defined here. I’m sorry, sir, but you may want to dress a little more conservatively (no pun intended) next time, as your your insecurity, paranoia, and hypocricy are showing.
And, by the way, “elitism” is far from “center stage” in this campaign. At least for most of us, it is the ISSUES that take center stage, no matter how frequently and how hard the McCain/Palin campaign and its supporters try to deflect the American public’s attention from them with talk of arugula, Ivy league, brie, Whole Foods, small towns, hunting, celebrities, and–of course–elitists.
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:07 pm 121. Marc Malone:“BeCareful”, you just did exactly what I said that the Intellectual Elites do. You dismiss our concerns about character, and want to talk about “the issues”. I said this in a previous post on this thread, and everyone who tries to refute me ends up saying, “the issues”.
You are right in one way: My arguments will seem snobbish and exclusive to you. (But other readers here have no problem with them, because they know it’s not about them.) I look down on someone who doesn’t make the grade. However, making the grade is simply a case of human values. It requires no special education. It’s open to rich or poor, smart or dumb, privileged or not. I look down on anyone who uses their wealth, or education, or intelligence, or privilege as a way to look down on others. Those things are not available to everyone, and often it’s simply a matter of being a member of the happy sperm club. MY standards are available to anyone. In that way, my standards are not in any way exclusive, and so are not snobbish.
Instead of arguing with you with abstract concepts, perhaps I should just lay out a couple of differences in policy, in an attempt to show where my beliefs of character and values stand versus intellectual elitism.
Tax the rich. Use the money to pay for, say, Universal Health Care. Um, no. That would be stealing! A rich man doesn’t mind paying for roads: he gets real benefits whether he uses them or not. Same with the military, and the CIA, the FBI, the rail system, national parks, etc…. But his life is not improved by forcing him to pay for someone else’s healthcare. “But, he can afford it!” That’s not for you to say. It’s his money, not yours. Furthermore, I find it galling for anyone to tell me that I’m too stupid to take care of myself, so he’ll do it for me. It smacks of… elitism.
Surely, some are calling for it, but the answer should be, “No!” It’s wrong to take away people’s hunger. God put a great system upon this Earth: It’s called hunger. When your belly gets empty enough, it touches your spine and motivates you to stand up onto your hind legs, and get on down the road and get after it! To presume to come up with a better system is to elbow God aside and say, “Move aside, Big Fella, and let me show you how it’s done.” It always causes more trouble than it solves.
We had generations of welfare families, all enslaved to the system. Finally, we scaled it back. We put a lifetime limit of 5 years on it. Doom and starvation were predicted. Um, again, no. Things got better. People finally broke the welfare cycle.
This is all basic wisdom, but it doesn’t get taught in the “elite” schools. They teach the opposite. These graduates then reach positions of power, and proceed to screw everything up. Hence, the reverse snobbishness.
But it’s not really snobbishness. If the elite educated simply show some common sense and values, then they’re accepted, and even admired. Character counts.
Sep 25, 2008 - 3:55 am 122. Dick Gonzalez:What BeCareful said!!
What could be more condescending than the view that the Republican party voter decides on his political leanings on the basis of which candidate makes him or her personally feel more worthy.
Talk about self-esteem issues!
The whole “elitism” talking point is actually aimed at a very narrow demographic who happen to be “swing” voters. These are people whose economic and geopolitical interests will never be aligned with the Republicans.
VDH gives his game away with this one. Not unusual.
Sep 25, 2008 - 4:05 am 123. SDW:My sister put various faucet parts on the counter. “My husband took this apart three weeks ago. Will you please sell me whatever I need in order to put it back together again?”
“M’am, what does your husband do?”
“Actually, he’s a brain surgeon.” True story.
Sep 25, 2008 - 7:43 am 124. Bugs:tomw: “Why is it that if I think differently than you, you think I’m talking down to you?”
Stop changing the subject. We’re not talking about people having different political beliefs. We’re not talking about one side thinking its plan for the country’s future is better than the other’s. That’s just democracy.
What we’re talking about is the basically anti-democratic attitude of leftist elites - the attitude that half of their fellow citizens are literally too stupid, ignorant, or evil to have a part in running the country. You may say you and other liberals don’t feel that way, but it’s all over your blogs and editorials - and most importantly, it came out in Obama’s condescending remark about guns and bibles.
Now, the blogs I can maybe understand. That’s just vile rhetoric, something conservatives are just as guilty of as liberals. (”If you like socialism so much, why don’t you go live in in France,” etc.) It doesn’t really matter if a few bloggers and some of their commenters are bigots. But Obama’s apparent Freudian slip worries me. Someone who’s as sharp as he and his supports claim shouldn’t make mistakes like that. It’s right up there with “Mission Accomplished.” And it makes me wonder if he really thinks that way about the people he wants to lead as President. The gun-and-bible crowd are citizens, too, but Obama evidently thinks they and their concerns can be dismissed with a glib remark. Don’t need a president with that attitude.
Sep 25, 2008 - 8:44 am 125. tomw:Bugs:
So its all about attitude is it? It’s not about what he says but the way it is said? So explain to me how it would be possible for two people to have diametrically opposing views, both are convinced they are right and the other is wrong, then how is it possible to not think the other side is stupid, ignorant or misinformed? Do I think your stupid? YES. But its OK because I know you feel the same about me.
The bible and guns comment has nothing to do with “elitism” - It’s a stereotype, nothing more or and nothing less. Now stereotypes aren’t fair and definitely insulting. This was a major gaffe on his part. But the truth is stereotypes happen for a reason, most often because they’re true. Yes, I’m saying it, a left wing democrat. Asians are good at math and bad at driving, black men have bigger dicks, blonds have more fun and… in rural communities people are more into guns and religion. Are you really suggesting they’re not?
Sep 25, 2008 - 11:29 am 126. Shef Rogers:Mr. Hanson, do you really expect anyone to believe this? At a time when billionaires are being bailed out at taxpayer expense, do you really hope to rouse us with the old scarecrow, “cultural elitism”? That’s pathetic.
Sep 25, 2008 - 12:04 pm 127. Marc Malone:Tomw, your most recent post was the most outlandish I’ve ever seen. This is not hyperbole. You’re justifying stereotypes? Unbelievable. Such things are the basis of the greatest evils in the world.
Jews are money-grubbing and control everything. Let’s kill all the Jews. Blacks are… Gays are… Hispanics are… Rednecks are… While you’re at it, why not defend eugenics?
Sep 25, 2008 - 3:13 pm 128. JT:Mr. Malone,
A couple of things: First, in responding to Javelin you wrote:
“For my money, you and JT failed to make any valid points, whatsoever. You simply regurgitated a higher-vocabulary level of talking points, likely implanted by your elite education.”
I hardly see how this comment (like so many others you have written) is ANY less dismissive or condescending than the comments you claim are so insulting when they come from those of us who are more liberally or progressively minded. And your earlier comments to me provide further evidence this point:
“Okay, JT, I’ve read your posts, and re-read my own. I see no sarcasm in my previous post.”
So, which one of us is in the state of denial exactly? The fact that this is a decidedly conservative blog, based upon the writings of a radically conservative writer, which generates a largely conservative echo chamber does NOT validate the truth of your assertions anymore than the Huffington Post validates the truth of mine. Can we at least agree upon that? What you and others here don’t seem to appreciate is that the very certainty that you express about your position and views is exemplary of precisely the same kind of elitism you claim to abhor. In other words, your belief/view appears to be that Obama, me, and others who think like us and believe what we do are “elitists” and you, Mr. Hanson, and others on this post who agree with you are unequivocally “real and down-to-earth people”. Surely, you must see the hypocricy in that position - at a minimum, you must see the irony. Right? In the words of Sarah Palin, here is a “news flash” for you: neither you or your team have a corner on the “values” or “character” market. That is what you don’t seem to get.
Second, in your post to me you also said:
“Your posts continue to show the condescending intellectual elitism that so annoys the rest of us. Your post towards TLM showed the very thing I spoke of when I said that liberal Dems always want to talk about “real issues”, and simply brush off as invalid our concerns about character being THE issue. Liberal Dems never get it.”
You want to talk about “character” … okay, I’ll be your huckleberry. Let’s talk about character, but let’s start with a question to you - have you served your country in military uniform? If so, when, where, and in what capacity? If not, why not? These are not a rhetorical questions. I really want to know. As you pointed out in an earlier post, how you “USE” your particular god-given talents or good fortune defines whether you are an elitist or a person of character. And as I am sure you will agree, the right often looks to military service as a litmus test for character. Indeed, conservatives feel quite comfortable wrapping themselves in the flag and claiming that those who disagree with the Iraq War (or any war for that matter) are “against the troops.” Thus, military service and unmitigated “support” of the members of our military equals “good character” right? Well, here’s a shocker for you. Right now, you are exchanging thoughts with a seven-year veteran of the finest military in the world. That’s right, Mr. Malone, you have been insulting and/or dismissing the views and character of a bona fide veteran. A soldier who defended (and continues to defend) your very right to express your views and question my character (or understanding of it) in this blog. While many of my friends in uniform disagree(d) with my politics and views (both then and now) - none of them would ever question my good character. And while I am truly interested in your answer about whether you served in uniform, it would not make one bit of difference to my assumption about whether you are a person of good character. Rather, contrary to what you might think, I begin with the assumption that you are a person of character - I just disagree with your view. And I can disagree with your views and philosophy with all of the same passion and sarcasm that you and so many other posters here have exhibited - and it has absolutely zero to do with my character. Indeed, if I remained silent in the face of what I believe to my core has been a reckless misuse and abuse of our nation’s military (and its military families) - now that would truly be a failure in character.
Be well, Mr. Malone.
Sep 25, 2008 - 3:31 pm 129. tomw:Marc Malone: Not justifying, just explaining. Stereotypes aren’t created out of thin air. This doesn’t mean every individual who is part of the group is the stereotype, it just means that somewhere, somehow, people slowly got this impression from people in your group. Additionally, it’s not all bad. I wouldn’t mind it if everyone assumed I had a huge dick.
Sep 25, 2008 - 7:30 pm 130. Marc Malone:Yes, JT, I served in the military from ‘79-’83. I was a Russian and German linguist, aka 98G1L RU GE. I did border duty in Fulda, GE, 11th ACR.
I had heard that Liberalism was spreading in the military, so it doesn’t surprise me that you’re in the military. What I don’t understand, is how someone who lives Duty, Honor, Country cannot make character his first priority when assessing a political candidate.
When I hear Obama talk, I hear him looking at every viewpoint BUT that of right or wrong. At Ground Zero on 9/11, Obama casually tossed his flower on the pile of other flowers. Sen. & Mrs. McCain reverently bent down and gently placed their flowers on the pile. It was no stunt. Watch the film.
When Kerry lied about his military background, and when I found out he’d thrown away his medals in a Jane Fonda-esque act, I was appalled. You know the rule: don’t claim heroism to which you’re not entitled, right?
When Sen. Clinton dissed the guys in Bosnia who fulfilled their mission by keeping her completely safe, by claiming she had come under sniper fire, I was angry. I don’t know if anyone died or got hurt securing the perimeter, but if they did, then they took a bullet for her, and for her to claim they failed was heinous. Surely, you see the point. No Repub would ever do such a thing. Ever.
What do these three have in common? Elite school degrees & Law school… and Democratic candidates for President. They lack simple common concepts of right and wrong, decency, and respect. Now, these people want to tell me they have a better way to run the government and society? This is what I mean by character and values first. All that fine education, and they missed the most important things.
Please tell me, JT, that you’re not like them? I’m not being sarcastic, here. If someone else said such a thing, I can see where you might see it as sarcastic, but in all these postings, as now, I mean it sincerely.
Sep 26, 2008 - 1:46 am 131. proud elitist:What is your actual issue with Obama?
Is it that he’s black? That he was raised with poverty by white people? That he got himself into a great undergraduate and excellent law school? That he met, pursued and eventually married a woman who he appears to have remained faithful to all of these years? That he did community organizing? That he has some ties to the not-so-stellar side of Chicago politics? That he has the audacity to challenge your war hero for presidency? That, god forbid, he went to an African-American church led by a black man who has worn the uniform of the US? That his reverend is also highly educated? That, god forbid again, his own reverend in church services expressed anger with the US? That he actually goes to church and has faith? Is it that he doesn’t wear a lapel pin to “prove” he’s patriotic? That he looks more presidential now that JohnnyPOWMac?
Your own candidate has strong ties to the conservative philosphy of deregulation, Phil Gramm, a member of the Keating Five, covered up wife’s stealing of drugs from her own charities, catted around on 1st wife (a beauty queen, disfigured during hiw POW time) and married an heiress rightafter divorce from #1 become finalized, has not supported the Veteran’s during this current war time, has not been a supporter of equal pay for equal work, has not been pro-women’s rights, etc?
Sep 26, 2008 - 12:58 pm 132. David Johnston:OK, so Vic wants to continue making stupidity a virtue. That was a winning formula for Bush in 2000. Anyone know how that worked out? How is lack of accomplishment in any phase of life justification to become president? Sarah is pathetic, John’s all over the place, out of touch and has sold his soul for his last crack at out-ranking his dad and granddad. Is that really what you guys want? Four more years of stupid? Someone is making a case for McCain’s character? Look at him, for crying out loud — he doesn’t have any! He’s clearly not bright, so now you want to swap that for character — which sort of makes sense, because McCain swapped his character to get votes from the Red Radical Right, people he used to hate (when he had character).
Ok, so here goes — the Red battlecry:
Vote Stupid! Vote McCain/Palin 08!
Sep 26, 2008 - 3:44 pm 133. Marc Malone:Hey, proud elitist. I’ll answer your query/challenge.
Why do I not like Obama? Because he doesn’t seem to have a sense of right and wrong. Growing up he went to Muslim schools. Moved to HI, where he was influenced by a noted communist. Hero growing up was Farrakhan.
Community organizing… with ACORN, a radical Alinsky group. Decided to get into politics, so went into law instead of PoliSci.
Befriends Bill Ayers, a domestic terrorist. Gets hired by him for CAC. Pisses away $100+M. Starts his first campaign in Ayers house.
Also hanging with Wright and Fleger, the America and Whitey haters. This church is black theology. It’s premised on Marxism and the destruction of whites.
Goes into politics and immediately gets into bed with the corrupt Chicago machine. He never fights it, rather just goes along, even when he had a chance. Takes the most extreme positions on the few votes that he does cast. Many of he earmarks he gets as State Sen go to radical groups like ACORN.
I could go on, but you get the picture. The guys is corrupt, and a subversive Marxist. He is an enemy of our country. He means us ill. Do not be confused about this.
Sep 26, 2008 - 5:28 pm 134. Deus:Malone:
The Constitution of the US guarantees freedom of expression and beliefs. It’s a big country. People can coexist with different lifestyles. As long as someone doesn’t threaten you physically, you should leave them alone. Look at New York City, what a melting pot! It’s not paradise, but you can live there. The US demographics are changing and soon the minorities will be different . . . And remember, each individual is born different: multiply that by the millions!
Sep 27, 2008 - 4:22 am 135. Charisse:OBAMA IS NOT AN ELITIST. IT’S A SAD DAY IN AMERICA WHEN A GUY ATTENDS HARVARD, SITS AT THE TOP OF HIS CLASS, GRADUATES AND TAKE A JOB AT $13,000 A YR. TO HELP FOLKS WHO LOST THEIR JOB AT THE STEEL MILL. GET IT? HELPS FOLKS IN DISTRESS. AND THEY CALL HIM AN ELITIST. IT’S THE DUMB CLUNK HEADS THAT ARE JEALOUS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT AND CAN NOT HOLD A CANDLE TO OBAMA. C’S GET DEGREES, RIGHT? OBAMA HAS 1 HOUSE AND 1 CAR, MCCAIN HAS 7 HOUSES AND 13 CARS. THAT’S WHAT YOU CALL ELITE.
Sep 27, 2008 - 11:26 am 136. Marc Malone:Deus, you’re right that we all have the right to freedom of expression. Tell that to the thugs on the left who suppressed the radio show with Kurtz. Tell that to the Dems who threatened the Jewish protest groups in NY, resulting in them disinviting Gov. Palin. Tell that to Obama, who loosed his minions, telling them to, ” get in your neighbors’ faces”.
Anyway, I’m all for freedom of expression. He can be a Marxist and what I view as an enemy if he wants, but that doesn’t mean I want him in power. If he wants to run as a Marxist, more power to him, but he souldn’t pretend he’s something else.
Sep 27, 2008 - 2:55 pm 137. Vivian:Charisse—please tell me just what Obama actually DID that helped the “folks that lost their job at the steel mill”. Did he call on some hiring authorities elsewhere and see that these people obtained employment? Did he give them his own money, or did he just elicit funds from other people? I would really like to hear just exactly how he “helped”, and how much taxpayers’ money was involved.
Sep 28, 2008 - 12:07 am 138. Vivian:If B. Obama had not gone to Harvard, what would it be that would let us know how intelligent he is? I haven’t heard anything but platitudes come out of his mouth, except when he speaks extemporaneously. And when he doesn’t have a prepared text, his stuttering, repetition and calculation make his sound inept, dull, and insincere. Could someone please point me to something he has done which demonstrates this vaunted “brightness”?
Vic, I really enjoyed your article, relished every beautifully written morsel!
Sep 28, 2008 - 12:15 am 139. Vivian:Sioux Lady—Audrey Hepburn—that’s a winner for me! Actually, though Sarah Palin reminds ME of the lovely actress who played the part of the maid “Sarah” in Upstairs Downstairs, Pauline Collins.
Sep 28, 2008 - 12:45 am 140. BeCarefulYourHypocicyIsShowing:Is anyone else here as old as I apparently am? Can’t believe I’ve not heard anyone else mention this. There were a lot of people watching Upstairs Downstairs!! Funny the coincidence with the name.
Marc Malone,
Believe me we care about character too–exactly the reason I mention hypocricy, etc. Exactly why we care about Troopergate, about campaign lies, about the lack of access to reporters and the “muzzling” of Palin when we want to get to know this person in both content and character.
Issues matter, how could they not? Character matters. What doesn’t matter is whether one person prefers the coast to Midwest or art and books to working with the hands. And certainly, despite certain portrayals and attempts and fueling fires of hatred and division, many enjoy both. And many of those who don’t nonetheless have no less respect for those who simply happen to live a different lifestyle, be drawn toward different interests, etc.
The world is wide and thus full of forms of diversity. It’s inevitable that not all will share the same interests and lifestyles.
(And actually I’d argue that were we not so geographically divided, many WOULD share many more of one another’s interests that current divisions in locale largely obstruct. Neighbors would learn about one another, would take part in one another’s interests and learn about and understand one another’s lifestyles and background. I’ve seen it happen repeatedly when circumstances allow, but with the current geographical divide, fewer and fewer such opportunities exist, and there are many who take advantage, often for their own gain, by playing to these divisions and doing all the can to perpetuate the divide rather than foster understanding, respect, and caring.)
But in what matters most, not lifestyle and hobbies and jobs and geographical location, but human nature, and human desires and needs and emotions, we are all the same. In my view those who try to pit the American people against one another are not doing what is best for mankind or our country. We are called the UNITED States of America for good reason. Good day.
Sep 28, 2008 - 2:12 pm 141. Marc Malone:Charisse, how do you know that Obama graduated near the top of his class? There’s no evidence of this, and the schools won’t release his transcripts. If he were applying for a job, no problemo, but since he’s running for Prez, sorry, you can’t have them.
He has 1 house and 1 car. Yep, a really big, expensive house (acquired crookedly), and a really nice car. Does Michelle have a car, too? If she does, does that count separately, or is it like with McCain, and everything she owns count as his?
McCain has 1 car; some Chrysler thingy. Cindy owns everything else. McCain was married before. He had 1 house and 1 car then.
Sep 28, 2008 - 6:07 pm 142. Some interesting reading « The Cat Herder:[...] Works and Days - Elitism, the Culture Wars and the Campaign [...]
Sep 28, 2008 - 8:29 pm 143. Marc Malone:BeCareful - You’re right. Preferences of books or outdoors shouldn’t matter. But as I said, there are many well-educated folks who don’t look down on our basic traditional values. We accept them, and they us. We even admire them for their achievements. If they favor caviar, fine, but they mustn’t use that as a litmus test of whether we belong in their group.
On the flip side, there is nothing wrong with using our system of morals and values as a litmus test of whether or not we accept them. Barry’s comment of “bitterly clinging to their guns and religions” was classic elitism. He stated right there his contempt for our traditional values. It’s that kind of attitude that this whole discussion is about.
Palin’s a whole ‘nuther issue, which I won’t address here.
Sep 29, 2008 - 1:44 am 144. BeCarefulYourHypocicyIsShowing:Marc Malone
But you don’t see any of that wrong sort of litmus test used in this very post itself? That was my original point. The writer of this post even makes a point that elitism (which is identified here as a negative) is defined in part by looking down on the values and lifestyle of Middle America while he himself (the author) acts (through his own words within this post) as if the reverse behavior (looking down on other lifestyles, such as those that are focused more on arts or urban culture rather than outdoors activities, as an example) is just fine.
That was my point and I haven’t seen it yet addressed. I don’t understand this hatred for, condescension toward, and stereotyping of fellow Americans I’ve encountered so much of lately online. At times there literally seems to be a glee in the plight of others and in mocking, stereotyping, and promoting division and exclusion among fellow Americans. I’m not saying that is all happening here, but this post, to me, represents a nasty perpetuation at division on unfounded reasons. If I understand you correctly, the reasons seem not necessarily unfounded at all to you (and clearly many others).
Sadly, I’ve not even begun to understand any of what is at the root of posts like these. Even if there is a perceived difference in values, lifestyle, and the like, who thought it was a good idea to pit people (especially fellow countrymen/women) against one another, rather than to aim for understanding, compassion, goodwill and the like.
I was taught when you have problems with or concerns about others you talk to them, try to get to know them, exchange ideas and see if you can figure out where each comes from. (That does involve some concession to the fact that you may not have the absolute right and only answer or way of life. Of course if one can’t make that concession, well, I suppose I can see why the need for communication is not recognizes and instead a caricature is made of those with whom talk is not desired. And from the caricatures and stereotypes bloom blossoms of hatred, division, and ill will. How do you think the Naazis influenced public opinion? Sadly division is now the very real state of two halves of this nation and in my view posts like these prey on stereotypes and insecurities rather than on positives, unity and commonality among people, and our nation’s strengths which relies largely upon being unified as a people in many ways.)
In my world you don’t just assume you know what others think, then talk about them instead of with them, and then insist you are so superior that they must respect you while you are at no obligation to do anything but mock, genreralize, and spout hate toward them. I’m sure it may not seem that that is occuring here in this post, and elsewhere, especially to those for whom this post actually makes sense, but it seems quite sad to me that it is not even slightly evident that the author here engages in the exact behavior he rails agianst.
My comment was the only one of the many I read that made any note of the phenomenon I mentioned; you, Mr. Malone did not seem to see any such pattern at play in M. Hanson’s post either (or did not note it in your responses to me if you did), so I think my effort at making my point has been made and I will get no leverage out of remaking it over and over.
All I can end with is that in decades of living among coastal liberals I’ve yet to meet even one person who uses anything like caviar, books, opera, etc. to judge others. Most of us reading posts like this are scratching our heads at how people who don’t even know us can have such negativity toward us (and please don’t say the post is aimed at elites meeting Mr. Hanson’s definition and not those for whom the shoe doesn’t fit. The point is he sets criteria for elitism that he meets himself, such as feeling superior to others for superficial reasons such as one’s hobbies, so it matters little if there are one or two liberals for whom his definition fits as his entire post is set up to praise those he seems to view as salt of the earth and demonize and mocks those who may appear different. Mr Hanson preys on fear and insecurity and differences for his own gain–he’s made a career of it after all– I’ve little doubt of that from the tone and tenor of his writing.)for supposedly doing something to them (though we are not) that they themselves are in fact doing to us instead (i.e. looking down on us for perceived differences and due to feelings of superiority(which by the way often are tied in with insecurity as well)).
Why is it that caviar and its ilk shouldn’t be used as a litmus test (and of couse I and any liberal I know agree it shouldn’t), but that working outdoors, or living in middle america should? Am I really the only one seeing the hypocricy in Mr. Hanson’s post? If so, my goodness, there is truly an even wider division that I realized and a wall that perhaps, sadly, will never be scaled between two halves of the whole of this country. Some, like perhaps Mr. Hanson who seems to take pleasure in mockery of others and division among those who have the potential to come together, may rejoice in that fact. I simply find it extremely disheartening.
Sep 29, 2008 - 3:09 am 145. BeCarefulYourHypocicyIsShowing:Also Marc Malone, comments like “You dismiss our concerns about character, and want to talk about “the issues” are exactly what I refer to when I speak of assumptions and generalizations. Because I care abt. issues means not that I don’t care abt. character.
If I didn’t care why would I write numerous long comments about Mr. Hanson being a hypocrite? Is hypocricy not an issue of character? Are you not the one talking politics while nearly all of my comments have almost exclusively spoken of issues of character? The immediate dismissal of and assumptions of those who appar unlike you or to disagree with you is not in my view fair or producive (if communication is your goal at least).
Additionally comments like “If the elite educated simply show some common sense and values” again shows the hypocricy. As you know those terms are subjective and clearly most of us belive we posses both values and common sense. Again, the exclusivity and sense of superiority you and Mr. Hanson speak of is eveiden here, in that you seem to think you are the determiner of subjective values and terms.
I agree with another commenter that here in this post Hanson has redefined elite apparently to fit what he thinks are liberals (and Obama) are but not the wealthy Rep. elite. He also seems to wants to separate elitism from anti-intellectualism in the letter but not spirit of his definition.
You say ” Barry’s comment of “bitterly clinging to their guns and religions” was classic elitism. He stated right there his contempt for our traditional values.” But again you state it’s okay to judge by values, seems that you think it’s okay to judge by yours and look down on and exclude those who have different values, but not for others to judge by theirs and make those same distinctions. That was my point, Hanson critiques what he calls elites for the same behavior he himself displays–and none of it has to do with what can be afforded by all or not.
In the end, as your comment noted above shows, it’s about looking down on those who are different, but hating it when it is done (or you think it is done) to you. My point is many of us liberals aren’t even thinking that way yet we are accused of it as well as treated with the disdain we are accused of holding for conservatives. You don’t seem to be able to recognize any of that at play and have lashed out at a few commenters who have tried to explain it.
Hanson (and many of the commenters on this post, yourself included Mr Malone) has shown the same behavior in his post, judging–not on values as you claim but on superficialities and empty stereotypes–that he derides within it and attributes to others. If you say you really don’t see any of this, then I feel there is no more I can say as I feel, as you claimed to in some of your comments to liberals, to be talking to myself, to a wall, etc. Good night.
(Btw, please go back and read the accusations, generalizations, mockery etc. of the left here just int he post and comments, and please reconsider your accusations clearly intended toward the left of exclusiveness, not understanding, snobbery, and so on. How’d you like to be talked about this way, here are just a few excepts form this comment section, with some of my reactions or interpetations of the comments in all caps.
If people don’t like others doing it to them or what they think is being done even if it isn’t, you’d think they’d refrain from engaging in that which they themselves criticize and dislike when directed toward them. Seems to not be the case and that is the hypocricy I’m trying to point out here, seemingly to no avail. I’m not here to fight or argue, but I do take great offense at the double standards as well s the refusal to acknowledge the hypocricy in them.)
Comment exceprts from this post below, take a look at some of the comments which are by Handon’s definition, are actually quite elitist. A few are pro lib. but most attack and stereotype liberals in a way I think reps. would cringe at if directed at them. Try subbing cons/Reps. for liberals/Dems in these comments and welcome to seeing how it feels to be liberal for a few seconds and have your own countrymen hate you for know reason that are not even true and worse somehow find a way to blame and accuse you of hating THEM!:
–Those backpacking American students in France spend the bulk of their time in cafes speaking English to each other. On mommy and daddy’s dime no less.
YOU HAVE SEEN ALL THEIR BANK STMTS, I GUESS?
–to the elitists, the most annoying point of this election campaign is that so many appear to refuse to vote as instructed by those who know better?
DEMS AREN’T UPSET AT NOT GETTING THEIR BELIEFS VOTED IN, ONLY BY HAVING OTHERS NOT VALUE WHAT THEY THINK IS THEIR SUPERIOR OPINION, BUT THAT OF COURSE IS IN NO WAY TRUE FOR REPS WHO ALSO WANT THEIR “SIDE” VOTED IN
The Democrats have an elitist mindset derived from their vaunted Life - read educational - Experiences. This has led to an arrogant view which prevents them from seeing any other manner of learning as worthwhile.
DEM HAVE NO LIFE EXP. FROM WHICH TO LEARN AND DISRESPECT ALL MDOES OF LEARNING BUT FORMAL EDUC.
Liberals think they’re a rarefied group whose opinion is better/smarter s
AND YOU KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK BECAUSE . . . ?
Only this: the living proof that they are not needed. Not needed to govern, not needed to influence and guide, not needed to lecture us on our intellectual and moral failings which are visible only from the heights of Manhattan skyscrapers or the palaces up on Mulholland Drive. Not needed. We can do it — and do it better — without all of them.”
WOW ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE CALLING FOR DEATH OR SECCESSION OF LIBERALS. LOVELY.
supporting Obama is a means to assert one’s moral superiority over other Americans.
RIGHT, AGAIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUALLY SHARING SOME OF HIS POSITIONS OR BELIEFS, ALL DEMS VOTE BASED ON SNOBBERY.
pragmatic working classes are generally less odious, since they value people (and their labors)over ideas.
DEMS VALUE IDEAS OVER PEOPLE
The Northeastern/California elites, have lost the ability to see value in, and hence to respect, the rest of the country and the values that inform our daily lives.
THE REVERSE ISN’T TRUE AT ALL, AND OF COURSE WE KNOW WHAT IS IN OTHER’S MINDS AND WHAT THEY DO AND DON’T RESPECT
There are genuine elites based on performance, such as in the military. For example, there are several hundred thousand soldiers in the US Army. There’s a much smaller number, perhaps 12,000 or so who are paratroopers. There’s a much smaller number who are Rangers, with smaller still numbers of Green Berets and Delta Force. Each of these levels requires a level of commitment, skill, and dedication beyond that of other soldiers. Those are elites of achievement, not of where they went to school.
GOING TO SCHOOL AND DONG WELL REQUIRES NO LEVEL OF COMMITMENT, SKILL, AND DEDICATION, THAT OCCURS ONLY IN THE MILITARY AND OTHER “NON ELITE/SNOBBISH” ENDEAVORS
–Simply depressing to see such a great mind caught up in petty resentments. You show your hand in mentioning what kind of lettuce Obama likes, or how he looks in a bowling alley.
EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN ABOUT HANSON DOING JUST WHAT HE RAILS AGAINST IN THIS VERY POST, THANK YOU FOR THIS POINT!!!
–the grade inflation in the Ivies, particularly Harvard, is stunning in comparison with what I saw at the state university: the elites from the Ivies over time rest on their own laurels and think there is not much else they need to learn.
I KNEW A FEW PEOPLE AND THUS KNOW THAT ALL IVIES USE GRADE INFLATION AND ALL IVY LEAGUERS REST ON THEIR LAURELS WHILE NON ELITES WORK MUCH HARDER AND ALWAYS GROW AND IMPROVE
–Almost every person I’ve met from those schools is woefully ill-equipped with knowledge about Islam - its scriptures, its theology, Sharia Law, and the fourteen hundred years of jihad against the kafir world.
AND THAT IS THE BE ALL END ALL OF NECESSARY, IMPORTANT KNOWLEDGE, AS DETERMINED BY NONELITES OF COURSE, WHO ELSE SHOULD DETERMINE SUCH SUBJECTIVE MATTERS
–This intellectual sloth and moral torpor, given the positions these people get after school, are dangerous things. We ordinary citizens are, in some ways, helpless before their habits of mind.
WOW, JUST, WOW
–Dang, these elitists are dense.
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, OR MORE LIKE TO ITS AUTHOR’S CHARACTER, IN MY OPINION
–First off, where does this “She doesn’t regard half of her fellow citizens as ignorant peasants like you” come from? Why is it that if I think differently than you, you think I’m talking down to you?
VOICE OF REASON, AGAIN
– being judged by achievement rather than effort ultimately reminds them of why they prefer the collective.
AH, DOUBLE WHAMMY, TWO ASSUMPTIONS, MISCHARACTERIZATIONS IN ONE, HOW NICE.
Obama famously asked a grocer for some arugula. The grocer didn’t know what it was. In Philly, Obama went into a grocer looking for some fancy cheeses. They only had run of the mill stuff. In 2004, Kerry was in Philly and ordered brie on his cheese steak or something like that. Actions speak louder than words.
THIS DOESN’T REEK OF JUDGING OTHERS BY SUPERFICIAL PREFERENCES BY ANY MEANS, ARUGULA AND CHEESE ARE HALLMARKS OF ELITIST VALUES DONT YOU KNOW
–Saying “We are the change we’re waiting for” - isn’t elitism, that’s just a campaign slogan. It’s self empowerment. It’s “We can do it.” Is this really the best example you have of something Obama has said that tells you he thinks he’s better than the rest of us?
THANK YOU!
–Character does not matter to these people. Trust me
Sep 29, 2008 - 4:09 am 146. BeCarefulYourHypocicyIsShowing:ANOTHER NON ELITE COMMENT, NOT THE LEAST BIT STEREOTYPICAL, UNFOUNDED, AND RIDICULOUS, NOT AT ALL.
“I am capable of running my own life, without the assistance of those who believe, despite evidence to the contrary, that they are better than I am.” If you don’t need help rest assured no one thinks you do–what makes you think otherwise I have no idea.
How much of this Hanson “elite” definition relies on believing one knows what others think and feel? Because judging by much of this post and its comments I’m starting to wonder . . .
Sep 29, 2008 - 4:16 am 147. Marc Malone:BeCareful - I re-read the article after reading your postings. I think the author did go a bit overboard when he was trying to manufacture an anecdote. That is the only place I could find the reverse snobbery, by his over-emphasizing the value of more “common” activities. So, I find your argument against the article has some merit. However, I find that the overall plaint is still true.
I’ve twice stated my criticism about Libs wanting to talk about “the issues”. You defended the practice, claiming that wanting to talk about the issues, doesn’t mean we don’t care about character. You simply missed my point, and thus, the whole point of this overall article. So, I’ll try again, because this is what it all boils down to.
They don’t simply prefer to talk about “the issues”, nor do they just want to change the subject to “the issues” and talk about character at another time. They simply dismiss the character and values issues.
The first clue is calling them “the issues”. Emphasis on “the”. That simple definite article excludes the values issue. Sometimes they use the phrase “the real issues”, which is more observably indicative of the fact that they simply don’t values the values issue as a legitimate issue, nevermind the overarching one.
This is the divide. I feel that the character and values issues are simply priority #1. Without them, nothing else matters. Right and wrong simply come first.
If you can’t accept that, then you’re one of those elitists who are enchanted by all these “new ideas”, these ideologies. It’s the idea that human ideas come before God’s ideas that I find so offensive.
It’s no coincidence that the attendance of church/temple is much, much higher on the conservative side than the liberal side. It comes down to the conservatives’ celebration of God versus the liberals’ celebration of Man.
Sep 29, 2008 - 12:59 pm 148. CalabreseDaughter:Every time I read a discourse like this I think am supposed to apologize for doing exactly what my blue-collar, hard-working father expected of me: study hard, go to college, get good grades and try to be the smartest kid in the room. He could explain to you with his down-to-earth, illiterate wisdom why you need the best and the brightest running the country exactly because he was secure enough not to be threatened by those who had DIFFERENT skills and abilities. He knew that someone like Barack Obama might not make the best coal miner, but that isn’t the task put forth before him. And Dad would be able to parse the “guns and religions” statement for what it was…in election years, many people in towns like the one I grew up in will not vote for the candidate that represents their best economic interests, but the one that uses fear-mongering tactics about taking away their guns and religion.
Oct 1, 2008 - 12:26 pm 149. Bugs:I am not fortunate enough to have my Dad with me any longer, and I am sorry not to have his down to earth wisdom to share in this election. He was the type of man who recognized character at ten paces…and by his example I can say that John McCain (adulterous, Keating 5) and Sarah Palin (questionable ethics, obfuscation) are not examples of character. Give me Barack Obama — the smartest kid in the room. (By the way, as Italian-Americans, we have eaten arugula for YEARS…what’s the big deal???)
tomw: “Do I think your stupid? YES. But its OK because I know you feel the same about me.”
Once again, you miss the point. I don’t think you’re stupid. I think you’re arrogant. So is Obama and so are many of his supporters.
Again, this isn’t about the factual content of anyone’s statements. I don’t care if rural people really tend to love guns and Jesus. I care that Obama and many of his supporters are contemptuous of rural people BECAUSE they love guns and Jesus.
The attitude is all over this comment section: “They’re just hicks. They didn’t go to college like WE did. They don’t know anything about critical thinking or logic or multiculturalism. They can’t possibly understand all the complexities in the world today. Only we are qualified to make important decisions. I don’t know why we even let them vote.”
I’m saying that this is a profoundly anti-democratic attitude. Democracy is based on the idea that people should have a say in decisions that affect their lives. Every citizen gets to speak and every citizen gets to vote. I know that in reality this ideal has seldom been attained - elites are always figuring out ways to ensure that only the “right people” get to make the decisions. Despite this tendency, the United States has been moving steadily toward opening the political process to more of its citizens. Believing that this trend has been a mistake - that some of those citizens aren’t really “qualified” to participate because of their education or cultural background - is truly anti-progressive.
Similar beliefs, in fact, kept women and African Americans locked out of the political process for most of this country’s history. I think elitism belongs in the same category as racism and sexism - it’s just a form of bigotry.
We can argue objectively about Obama’s qualifications. Yes, he may be “the smartest kid in the room.” But smart has nothing to do with character. Obama’s offhand contempt for certain of his fellow citizens - and his past association with people and organizations who share that contempt - do not bode well for democracy in this country.
Oct 2, 2008 - 7:40 am 150. Sarah Palin, Elitism vs Widsom and the Political Crisis of the 2008 Election « Strange Monkey Doll:[...] Hanson has recently delved into this question, and again I invite you to read both of these pieces: Elitism, the Culture Wars, and the Campaign and Palin and Obama—What Really is Wisdom? Hanson is a fascinating character: Stanford [...]
Oct 2, 2008 - 10:27 am 151. Marc Malone:Calabrese, please get better informed about Keating 5 scandal. The guilty ones were the Dems. McCain and Glenn were EXONERATED. John Glenn and McCain were tagged with a meaningless “poor judgment”, because they were the only Repubs investigated, and the Dem senate didn’t want to only have Dems look like the scoundrels. In the current vernacular, the ‘Pub scapegoats were political cover.
As far as character, well, your Gramps would never have voted for someone like Obama with his shady background. He’d know him for the scoundrel he is. Too bad he’s not around to set you straight. He’d tell you about the hucksters who promise a chicken in every pot.
Oct 2, 2008 - 1:51 pm