192 Comments

1. MartyVice:

The US health care industry is a growth industry that is globally competitive. So why does Obama want to completely overhaul it?

One of the main reasons the cost of health care has risen is that private individuals voluntarily choose to spend on their own health care and want the benefits of all the new technology.

What’s next? Go after the high-tech industry because people are spending more on high-tech gadgets?

Very little honesty last night on the real issues.

Sep 10, 2009 - 6:18 am 2. David Thomson:

“or he has nothing to say at all”

Barack Obama is poorly educated. He does not possess a keen analytical mind. Our current president cannot think and follow a logical argument if his life depended on it. It is very fair to describe him as all style and virtually no substance. Obama was never compelled to really debate ideas while attending Harvard University. Moreover, he most likely benefited from this vastly overrated academic institution’s affirmative action programs. Has it only been a little less than eight months since the inauguration? It almost seems like a million years ago.

Sep 10, 2009 - 6:51 am 3. Ron Kean:

Like has been said over and over on this thread and elsewhere, as long as he keeps hiding his:

1. kindergarten records
2. Punahou school records
3. Occidental College records
4. Columbia University records
5. Columbia thesis
6. Harvard Law School records
7. Harvard Law Review articles
8. scholarly articles from the University of Chicago
9. passport
10. medical records
11. files from his years as an Illinois state senator
12. his Illinois State Bar Association records
13. any baptism records
14. adoption records.

I can’t trust a word the President says. I think he’s sneaky. His people at ABC, NBC and the rest have insulted me, fellow Republicans and independents. They favor despots, Marxists, Communists, and betray the concept of democracy and people yearning to breathe free.

It’s a sorry state of affairs.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:51 am 4. mikesf:

One trick pony! Obama’s acolytes talked of a
‘game changer’. Nonsense! Apart from the scolding tone, same ole hopenchange.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:05 am 5. Charles Gordon:

As he knows everything, he has nothing more to learn; no need for change, nor in his manner, nor for extra effort, nor for more work; the same words, the same shifting of attention onto the tugging appeal to charity and away from the ominous command of obedience to the ruler’s power.

Having arisen thinking everyone but himself a fool, for fools hastening his rise, like acolytes to a Nero, who surrounded him were many; having shaken the meaning of words to oblivion, our historic first Islamic apostate president will slash our paychecks to pay his and his cronies’ debts, and shackle our future to the whims of his envious coterie of malcontents.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:09 am 6. R. Richard Schweitzer:

Notably, you do not state that Obama lies, which he does knowingly.

Add to that, representing that facts exist, which in fact do not, and there are additional layers of lies.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:18 am 7. Robert Winkler Burke:

Have a bottle of weakness, my friend,
Drink it down, down, down!
Drink that bottle of weakness, old chum,
Makes you strong, strong, strong!

I’m not talking about alcohol,
Though that’ll do,
I’m talking bad doxie, bad ideas,
Anything not true!

In America, all men are created equal, right?
No! With my bottle it is wrong!
Tax the unborn tomorrow with today’s debt,
Hands down, this beats abortion!

Have a bottle of weakness, my friend,
Drink it down, down, down!
Drink that bottle of weakness, old chum,
Makes you strong, strong, strong!

In America, we have an experiment in liberty,
No! With my bottle it’s a sham!
Our over lords lord to ruin, except themselves,
Of course, of course! What a clan!

Let’s drink to health care,
Let’s drink to whatever,
So long as our over lordship,
Keeps its choke hold cover!

Have a bottle of weakness, my friend,
Drink it down, down, down!
Drink that bottle of weakness, old chum,
Makes you strong, strong, strong!

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:24 am 8. Pops in Vienna:

Good article Doc. I hope that the scales are starting to fall from peoples’ eyes. I know a lot of Obama supporters here in Europe and they are still willing to follow him over the cliff. I remain cynical. I think conservatives are now awake and riled up but I fear most Obama folks are still drinking the Kool Aid.

I predict that the Dems will ram the existing bill through as is. Dems holding seats in red districts will probably get voted out in 2010 even if they vote no. If they are promised nice positions (more czars)after they are booted I imagine they’ll be persuaded to vote the way Pelosi and Ibama want them to.

Maybe we should begin thinking about how to undo this thing if conservatives ever regain power again. But, of course, by then people will be hooked on the “heroin” and it might be impossibe. Consider how we’ve been unable to fix social security.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:33 am 9. PM:

Mayday Mayday Mayday – he’s going down.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:34 am 10. tanstaafl:

…magic savings will come from waste and fraud [if the latter is really true, why not bank the savings right now?])

Ironic in that so much of current waste & fraud is associated with Medicare & Medicaid, i.e. government insertion into medicine in the first place. (So when healthcare becomes further bureaucratized under Obamacare, you might expect what to happen to waste & fraud ? Exponential increases?)

Anyway, presumably, government could get to work right now on this dimension of cleaning up healthcare, cleaning up waste and fraud all along the medical food chain as a function of exploitation of Medicare & Medicaid.

Obama noted last night that his plan would require every American to have health insurance. This is profoundly offensive and, one would think, beyond the designated powers of the national* government.

*it doesn’t feel very “federal” these days

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:47 am 11. Pajamas Media » Obama’s Big Speech Didn’t Quite Do It:

[...] Read the entire post here. [...]

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:19 am 12. RLS:

Who’s the liar, Barry or Joe?

Who’s the slick politician, Barry or Joe?

I like a jack-leg congressman yelling at a jack-leg president.

The whole scene is very fitting, and very American.

Let’s have more rude and raucous acts directed at our want-to-be betters, our want-to-kings.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:21 am 13. Poor Citizen:

I have to agree with the author, largely based on historical truth. First, like Jack Kennedy, Barack is very intellegent, but intelligent people tend to talk above their audience, hence smart people hear what he says, but many get jealous and upset. I remember some political leaders in the sixties arguing strongly for integration, just like many do now, for better health care based on the theory that America deserves better. But I am just not sure “the many” are ready for it yet. However, I am convinced, the no congress just might turn into a yes congress if only because of 2010. We shall see.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:39 am 14. quesnay:

Blah, Blah, Blah ad infinitum. You are right Professor. Ennui is Obama’s riger mortous. Actually, according to the urban dictionary rigermortous is defined as: “Meaningless blather, Nonsensical, crap, s**t, stuff, which has little importance”. “He’s talking all kinds of rigermortous.” http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rigermortous

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:39 am 15. bibio44:

12. RLS: “Who’s the liar, Barry or Joe?”

Joe. Keep asking questions, RLS, it’s the only way you’ll learn.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:45 am 16. BH:

So here is what I don’t understand:

The Bush administration convinced America that spending a Trillion Dollars on regime change in Iraq over the course of a decade was a necessary cost. Iraq was, at most, an abstract threat to America (Abstract in the sense that Saddam had no intention of directly attacking the US – he might have sold WMD’s to terrorists but his delivery systems were insufficient for a direct attacks on US soil)

So if the American people are willing to shell out a Trillion dollars to enact regime change in response to an abstract threat, why is there so much push-back to provide health insurance for all Americans?

People with insurance live healthier lives. Because of this, they are more productive at work, earn higher salaries, pay more taxes and purchase more goods and services. Insuring all Americans directly increases aggregate prosperity.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:57 am 17. Dave:

Empty and banal are exactly what the speech was. Our President is a narcissist who has been deluded into thinking he can will things to be what ever he wants just by saying the right words. His ignorance of history, human nature, and economics have us turned in exactly the wrong direction and all the perfect words in the world are not going to make this anything other than a disaster. We need a congress that will reign him in and we need it soon.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:01 am 18. Saltherring:

Poor Citizen @ 13 states, “Barack is very intellegent, but intelligent people tend to talk above their audience, hence smart people hear what he says, but many get jealous and upset.”

I propose that this president would be talking BELOW his audience if he had presented this speech to the inhabitants of the local animal shelter.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:18 am 19. Scott:

Ok folks we can’t have it both ways, he’s either a moron or intelligent but he can’t be both. Educated idiot? Sure, I’ve met plenty of those. However, he cannot be the “evil mastermind” plotting to turn America into a communist hell hole and at the same time a moronic fool who only graduated Harvard because of Affirmative Action. Please have some consistency in your arguments, otherwise you end up sounding like the Liberals bashing Bush.

Personally I think Obama’s moderately intelligent, however his intellect is overruled by his ego and political ideology. Ideology whose teat he’s been suckling at since birth and even to this very day. I also think that other people use both his ideology and his ego to manipulate him with varying degrees of success.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:26 am 20. CatoRenasci:

You’re right, Obama simply has nothing to say at all.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:34 am 21. Calvin Ball:

Pay no attention to that Soros behind the curtain! I am the great and powerful Ob!

/And I’d have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling talk radio wingnuts…

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:34 am 22. Paul M Hupf:

He’s not capable of being precise. All of his language regarding the “health care plan” is more “hope and change”. What worked for the President on the campaign trail will not work now. Voters then gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now, confronted with deprivation of what they value (their health insurance) and apprehension about the extraordinary actions of the now incumbent Democrats who intend to force what they want through Congress, overriding all opposition, voters are apprehensive and justly so. And they are evidencing their discontent in a remarkable way: protest rallies! Who would have thought this possible in January 2009?

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:36 am 23. Scott:

BH wrote: So if the American people are willing to shell out a Trillion dollars to enact regime change in response to an abstract threat, why is there so much push-back to provide health insurance for all Americans?

You are either blissfully (and woefully) ignorant or are intentionally oversimplifying the issue.

People are not against reform they are against the current bills before the House and Senate. Have you even bothered to read the bills? Are you intelligent enough to understand both the explicit and implicit results of passing them?

On top of that the statement “People with insurance live healthier lives.” is a blatant falsehood. Having insurance does not lead people to live a healthier life in any way shape or form. There are more people who drink, smoke, use drugs, are overweight/obese, and eat poorly who have insurance than there are people without insurance. Living a healthy life is a personal choice that is unrelated to one’s access to medical care, don’t confuse the two.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:44 am 24. Jack Okie:

BH:

The underlying motivation for the Iraq war was non-proliferation. Saddam signed an agreement that he would disclose his NCB weapons and facilities to the UN. He made that agreement as a consequence of losing the first Gulf War. The disclosure was to be on the model executed by South Africa, in which it is the disclosing country’s responsibility to proactively produce everything according to a strict protocol. Instead, Saddam gamed the system, bribed the UN (see Claudia Rosett’s brilliant expose of the Oil for Food program, and failed to carry out his agreement. The Bush administration’s calculus was that it was too dangerous to non-proliferation efforts to allow Saddam to thumb his nose at the international community, and if the UN was too corrupt to act we would have to build our own coalition to deal with him. An early result was Libya’s disclosure of a previously unacknowledged nuclear program.

It basically gets down to what you are prepared to do to avoid NCB proliferation. Either you don’t think NCB proliferation is a big deal, or you are unwilling to support any realistic effort to curtail it. Rather than applaud and join W’s efforts, the Democrats piled on for sheer short-term political advantage. And now the UN is toothless, Iran and North Korea are close to some serious weapons, and there is no brake in sight. The other countries in the ME now face a choice of nuking up themselves or becoming Iranian hostages. Will you feel anything when the mushroom clouds begin rising all over the ME? Or maybe you think it’s none of our business.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:46 am 25. Sebastian Shaw:

President Obama’s pompous speech had nothing but glittering generalities & soaring platitudes for a promise to everything for everyone; this was not a Presidential speech, but a weak, desperate CAMPAIGN SPEECH from an incompetent Marxist “leader.” He came off a disjointed, angry, &, again, desperate. He said nothing new he has not already said before 111 speeches ago begun in the early days of Summer. The bill is doomed. I am glad since the bill is nothing more than fool’s gold encrusted turd on a stick & Obama is trying his best to sell it as real gold. The snake oil salesman’s pitch has a tin ear for being a political creature. Far worse for the Statists, Negative Nancy Pelosi does not have the votes in the House to pass the turd to the Senate. I see Obama’s poll numbers to continue their free fall into oblivion as long as he pushing for a power grab, any power grab from now on.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:56 am 26. David Thomson:

“However, he cannot be the “evil mastermind” plotting to turn America into a communist hell hole and at the same time a moronic fool who only graduated Harvard because of Affirmative Action.”

Nothing could be further from the truth. Barack Obama possesses a high I.Q.—and is also someone who benefited from Harvard’s affirmative action policies. One can be both at the same time! He never was challenged to do more. Obama basically learned enough to pass a state bar exam and wing it as a professor of constitutional law. A narcissist like Obama doesn’t believe it is necessary to do any serious reading and studying. He perceives himself to be innately brilliant and wonderful.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:58 am 27. Vasio:

I agree w/ you #16.. Nobody said anything about the money for the war.. That’s what the deficit is about this war. A trillion dollars that’s what brought the deficit on.. and where is Bin Laden????? Do you know Dave #17??? That’s what caused this huge debt.

Now you say Obama is a narcissist? I don’t see that as true. I think it is just Jealousy.. Because #17 Dave nobody will vote for you to do anything!

So it’s a respect issue. We are America and we thrive on DEMOCRATIC principles, so the people chose Obama. So what you should do is not be angry, embrace it, because it was a fair vote. Unlike the vote 4 and half years ago, but lets not go down that troubled path. So this silliness and banter that he knows nothing, I can say he knows alot more than we do as we are not PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, he is and to make these remarks and not base them on anything but your feelings, because you dislike OBAMA as a man/person is futile.

You will accomplish nothing and why would anyone disagree with something that is going to benefit Americans, “HEALTH CARE”. Even is a million people don’t need it there’s a million people who do need it. So what’s the problem? Why are soldiers fighting for a America that is fighting within itself? For years with the prejudice, racial and hateful tension for those who occupy this land as citizens. For what purpose and what gain? I have not seen anything positive come from hatred and selfish acts. You people are acting like you have some authority, demanding to see his Birth Records?? This is America, if he didn’t have the credentials or meet requirements to be president he wouldn’t be… So do your expect him to come to your doorstep and show you his paper work, or possibly a live confrence and hold each document up to the camera? Seriously?

I am not here defending Obama, but I know how to be respectful and have an understanding of life

So all of you who say Obama knows nothing, please run for office, get your political team ready, get your suit out of the cleaners and hit the campaign trail and argue your views and points in front of congress and the world and lets see if you get elected?

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:58 am 28. scott:

Good article even though hastily written. Thanks.

As an aside it occurs to me the pubbies have no idea the destruction that stalks them. I will be sure to vote in the primaries and I will vote against ALL incumbents. I know a lot of other folks that feel the same.

Now you can avoid this catastrophe my little spineless pubby pets by all rediscovering Ronald Wilson Reagan and simply mimicking his every thought. Try and be sincere too. Just thoroughly repent of just about every thing you’ve ever done or thought and let your mind be filled with truth. You can do it.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:01 am 29. Vasio:

@ Ron Kean #3:
Like has been said over and over on this thread and elsewhere, as long as he keeps hiding his:

1. kindergarten records
2. Punahou school records
3. Occidental College records
4. Columbia University records
5. Columbia thesis
6. Harvard Law School records
7. Harvard Law Review articles
8. scholarly articles from the University of Chicago
9. passport
10. medical records
11. files from his years as an Illinois state senator
12. his Illinois State Bar Association records
13. any baptism records
14. adoption records.

Hey give me your fax and I’ll get him to fax this over to you and once it has Ron’s seal of approval, it will be okay? Right? So we can get this behind us.

Good ol’ Ron Seal of Approval.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:02 am 30. Anonymous:

Ooooh, looks like the right wing is getting nervous that all the death panel nonsense they’ve tried to spread this summer hasn’t tripped up the president’s stride.

Summer’s over, wingnuts. Time to go back to getting schooled.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:04 am 31. Rashputin:

“Personally I think Obama’s moderately intelligent, however his intellect is overruled by his ego and political ideology.”

I think he’s completely unbalanced to the point that were he not a darling of the AA crowd he’d fall apart and go back to the treatments he had in college. Whether that was drug use (he admits to that) or drug addiction, it was the result of his narcissist personality, a personality that will show itself as a paranoid manic depressive if he doesn’t get what he wants. It won’t be a matter of tossing a czar under a bus; it’ll be a matter of him tearing into his own party as having betrayed him. That’s about the time people will start wanting to see his medical records which will only increase his instability.

Hang on for an interesting ride accompanied by the accusation that we drove the poor man insane by refusing his wishes. If you think one guy yelling “lies” or “liar” is bad, wait until you see Obama without a teleprompter and having a tantrum.

Regards

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:11 am 32. jharp:

David Thomson:

“Barack Obama is poorly educated.”

Good God I’ve heard it all.

On what planet do you spend most of your time?

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:13 am 33. thlipsis29:

BH,

I’m in no way opposed to helping people obtain affordable health insurance and working to reform the current health care system to help make both the care and insurance more affordable. What I am vehemently opposed to is the government running that health care system. I have too many friends who have to deal with the V.A. and hear of the headaches they develop in just trying to receive the basic care they deserve. Our government has proven to be inept in managing the health care it already provides to sector of our citizens. Is this what we really want to knowingly impose on most everyone else in this country?

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:14 am 34. JED:

Until his verbal promises match the published bill, the president’s honeymoon with the optimistic is over, and he must be considered a liar until he proves himself otherwise.
He mentions paying for the bill by ridding the current federal health systems of fraud and inefficiency. He is the nation’s chief executive and he could have already done that if he was not so busy campaigning. That is his job, not supreme senator.
That whole auditory preacher polarizer voice was irritating beyond acceptable for the office. One might compare it to the 3rd Reich in the 1930 with replies of Seig Heil, Mein Fuher. Welcome to the national socialist party.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:14 am 35. Anonymous:

President Obama is certainly not well-educated. He thought that there were 57 states of the United States and that Austrians speak a special language of “Austrian.” He said that Mohammedans had invented the magnetic compass (the Chinese did), that they had invented the printing press (the Chinese and Gutenberg did that), that they had founded the oldest university (the Italians did that). He said that Mohammedan principles underlay the American Revolution and that Mohammedans had fought in every American war! Tell that to George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:17 am 36. Ed Wallis:

Hanson’s bottom line is that Obama should, to paraphrase, “retreat and declare victory.”

I doubt this Marxist will do any such thing, especially with such majorities in House and Senate.

I can well imagine voices in the White House saying, “Losses in 2010 be damned!”

They will merely take all they can, in the time they have…that is to say: they will do as much damage as they can prior to 2010, knowing full well they may have no opportunity thereafter.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:17 am 37. "progressivewatch":

The Obama is hitting the fan!

Yes,he did.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:24 am 38. Jim:

The only people B. Hussein inspires with this speech is the weak minded, lazy, do for me crowd. As time passes, more and more serious people realize that B. Hussein is a fraud, that his “hope and change” is the same-old, same-old that has failed everywhere it has been tried.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:25 am 39. Boyd:

BH asks: “So if the American people are willing to shell out a Trillion dollars to enact regime change in response to an abstract threat, why is there so much push-back to provide health insurance for all Americans?”

Reasonable question. My answer – because thankfully they recognize the clearly defined Constitutional duty of government to provide for the national defense and the just as clear infringement on our liberty that Obama’s version of health care “reform” presents. It doesn’t matter how good they are at either. They have the right to pursue the former but not the latter.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:26 am 40. karlinsync:

Still no word as this administration is sticking it to the American people Obama and Congress are still exempt from “The Plan.” I know it’s minor but I think it’s big deal when it comes to “it’s for you but NOT us.”

I have a very hard time with the IRS involved to make sure everyone is a part of the health system. How is the IRS going to monitor illegals who do not fill out year end Federal tax forms? (Big brother will be watching)

My list could go on and on but I guess I just wanted them to start over. Include the Republicans, which they have not. Tort Reform must be part of it and heck lay off the insurance companies. If their so bad lets open the whole country to insurance providers rather than the curent state-state.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:29 am 41. carla:

Wilson told the truth. Obama lies. That is sad reality of Obama’s performance. The entire loyal opposition should have stood up and chanted liar, liar, pants on fire. It would have been a ‘teaching moment’ for our impressionable youth emphasizing that even the President of the United States most stick to the truth. As for John Mccain…why he persists on calling himself a Republican is a complete mystery. A disaster as Presidential candidate, and a train wreck as a Republican spokesperson.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:29 am 42. billslayer:

BH: An honest question deserves an honest answer. I take it you are you are just referring to cost. And the answer is this. If you look at how much more expensive things such as Medicare, and Medicaid and yes, Iraq are as compared to what they were advertised to be the average is…10 times more expensive. So that 200 billion a year? Possibly 2 trillion. If you must, as most dem partisans are wont to do, use Bush as an example. Remember when it was going to cost $87 billion? How did that work out? If you think that 2 trillion is far to high of a worst case scenario, just cut that number in half. 1 trillion. Can we do that?

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:42 am 43. jodetoad:

Considering that the problem passing the bill is in the Dem party, he was probably trying to unite the Dems, quell Dem bickering, focus them on the evil GOP.

Dems appear to be more susceptible to emotional rants, so perhaps it will have some effect. But for anyone who actually thinks about the content of the speech, there is nothing new here. Waste of a joint session.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:47 am 44. Richard M. Nixon:

What did he say; when did he say it?

/Payback’s a biotch, ain’t it?

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:00 pm 45. Eme:

Oh; come on! it wasn’t that bad.

more emoticons needed!!!!!!

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:01 pm 46. adam:

Obama has nothing new. It’s still the same question: does “public option”=Trojan Horse towards single payer? And does single payer, in turn, mean government control over health care, including, ultimately, treatments, drug research, medical training, etc.? (OK, that’s two questions–but one follows the other) If a majority answer this question in the affirmative, Obamacare is doomed–although it may take down a bunch of Democrats who sacrifice themselves on its altar down with it.

And, as the Left itself has been saying, this is its Waterloo–if it can’t get this through, the great Progressive rising heralded by the election cycles of 2006 and 2008 is over. And if does get Obamacare through in some way, we will continue fighting it every step of the way. Conservatives have learned about mass protest; maybe we’ll now have to learn about civil disobedience and invent a kind of “Underground Clinic” for those evading the slavery of government health care. And who knows where that might lead?

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:04 pm 47. Sherab Zangpo:

The problem is this:

- the demonrats present a 1,000 pages bill that is a shame (and IT DOES include death panels)

- The American People insurrect in the Townhall meetings

- The demonrats call them nazi-wingnuts but realize they can’t pass the soviet-style bill.

- Obama goes to Congress and says that it was never his intention to do the things that the bill in fact could do.

So what can we expect he will do ?
He will probably try to pass another bill that will include exactly what angered the American People.
The problem is that this guy lies, lies systematically, lies repeatedly, lies all the time.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:13 pm 48. Saltherring:

Scott @ 19:

Obama masks his marginal intellect with his ability to read prepared, teleprompter assisted speeches. His education (or indoctrination), what little we know of it, was gained by studying at profoundly leftist Ivy league campuses. His work history has consisted of advancing various publicly-funded ventures where no profit-or-loss/life-or-death decisions were required or rendered. His entire adult life has been spent hustling, hoarding and wasting the taxpayers’ money promoting failed socialist give-away programs. He has developed nothing, produced nothing and accomplished nothing. It is painfully obvious that he is totally underqualified and for shamefully unprepared the office he holds. He would be better suited as a carnival proprietor or televangelist for a cult.

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:13 pm 49. Sebastian Shaw:

As Obama’s radicalism is made more aware by we Americans with ObamaCare, the other Democrats will find President Obama politically radioactive; anything Obama touches, figuratively, will turn to dust with his other radical plans such as Cap & Trade & other destructive legislation. The Congressional Democrats will eventually realize they will have to throw the One under his own bus to save their own skins. The Democrats will also discover their leader cannot lead when he has no coattails to help other Democrat candidates; in fact, Obama’s presence will have a negative effect as has been shown in the governor races in New Jersey & Virginia.

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:19 pm 50. Joker:

I was hit with a bad case of LOSS (Listening to Obama Speech Syndrome) last night. With his first few sentences of blather my eyes glazed over. Brain freeze set in as the emptiness of his rhetoric sucked the life out of my neurons. Drool dripped onto my shirt as he droned on and on. Each lie, misrepresentation and empty promise led to a convulsion until I was flopping around the room like a fish. Finally I went catatonic, lying there helplessly until this morning when I purged with a powerful Limbaugh laxative.

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:28 pm 51. Vasio:

Here it is Carla #41 the us against them mentality. McCain just as others may want to do the better good for society. It’s like when you where a kid, you never wanted to eat your vegtables, but your parents made you because they are good for you, but as a kid you thought how could something that tastes so awful be good for me, You wanted an explanation from your parents, but you got none, but you ate your vegtables and grew up to be a healthy child. Just as this You don’t have any idea of MacroEconomics of Government accounting, your facts are based of what you hear and what you are told. If someone screams lie, and they are on the side you are on then you scream lie too… This is a almost like being hyptnotized.

To scream lie in a speech given by a president is hugely disrespectful and have never been done. I can tell you from all the mishaps that all presidents faced in past history; no president has had that happen to him ever.

And Carla if McCain was such a trainwreck as a presidential candidate why did you vote for him? Just because you didn’t like the other guy?

No president knows how to be president. There is not a college major that prepares you to become president. Being president is not easy and to respect that fact is to respect the president. Your opinion is your opinion, but respect is due to everyone, unless they did something to you to not deserve respect. The president has did nothing to you personally to not have your respect.

If you say that Obama is a liar, what president was completely honest with society and how would you know, you are not in the cabinet meetings, you are not in to oval office; so you don’t know?

Everyone is talking about BIG BROTHER, uneducated souls, BIG BROTHER has been here for centuries, you just dont look at the big picture.

You know nothing about what goes on in the oval office or cabinet meeting in all of presidential history, you only know what the media tells you? (BIG BROTHER)… You only know what is printed in newspapers? (BIG BROTHER)… You only know what you see on television or news programs (BIG BROTHER)… Big Brother is watching there are cameras on the roads you travel (is it for protection?) or is it? (BIG BROTHER)… You are taught what school boards think you should learn? (BIG BROTHER)…

So this talk of Marxist society, socialism and Big Brother. Get a real clue, phones are tapped, calls are recorded, internet is monitored.

So instead of complaining help one another and love each other as Christ loved us all…

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:30 pm 52. Ron Kean:

16. BH

It’s the classic question of guns or butter.

Reports from many nation’s intelligence services said Saddam had WMD’s. It’s difficult to guess the intention of a megalomaniac mass murderer like him after our forces found 300,000 bodies buried in mass graves in the desert.

If he would have sold WMD’s to anyone, who knows how many Americans might have been killed. Another president might have given Saddam the benefit of the doubt. Many are giving Iran just that right now.

But after 911 with 3000 dead, Bush was spooked and acted in a way that polarized the nation and will be debated as long as we have free debate.

Putting a trillion dollars revamping health care doesn’t necessarily guarentee productive workers and prosperity although a worker with good health guarentees him the opportunity to work and prosper.

How many Van Jonses are going to be sitting across the table from my son and granddaughters? Do you trust the current president?

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:43 pm 53. The UnPatriot:

51. Vasio:

So why do you want more?

–The UnPatriot

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:46 pm 54. SShiell:

“To scream lie in a speech given by a president is hugely disrespectful and have never been done. I can tell you from all the mishaps that all presidents faced in past history; no president has had that happen to him ever.”

The Democrats boo’d President Bush during the 2005 State of the Union address. That doesn’t count?

Get a Clue!

Sep 10, 2009 - 12:55 pm 55. nomad:

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You , Joe Wilson Where can I send a contribution to your RE-ELECTION

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:15 pm 56. Nomad:

Well spoken #41

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:18 pm 57. deguello:

DROOL FROM THE FOOL!

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:23 pm 58. rachel peepers:

Dr. Hanson. That was another well crafted six hundred plus words.

Here’s my two cents. What I soaked up from Obama’s, throw lots of stuff against the wall and see how much of it sticks speech.

1. In about two seconds I heard 14 thousand illegal aliens thrown under the bus. Ouch.

2. like Mark Lloyd, (FCC Official/Czar type) wants to have Rush, Sean, Glen and Bill pay for NPR, thereby driving conservative voices out of business, Obama wants State Farm and friends pay for the public option. Fraud and waste will pick up about a hundred stamps and fifteen to thirty envelopes sent to street corners because so many newly covered people have no address.

3. Sarah Palin is a pathological liar because she uses “Star Wars” language when talking about a president’s public option. Remember? Reagen called it the “Strategic Defense Initiative” and the press called it “star wars”. Whether it’s bureaucratic final word death panels or late stage transition teams, any sick Grandma in her right mind will be deathly afraid to go to the hospital because under the public option all hospital names are required to have the mice type subheads, “Your local Roach Motel”

4. You can always count on Barack to give speech examples of the wonderful achievements this country has made in medicine thereby saving people’s lives.

Whooops. Rachel put that inartfully.

You can always count on Barack to give examples how big bad insurance companies okayed lifesaving treatment a day too late.

A better visual schick would have been for Barack’s people to have labeled coffins in the aisles of Congress as Malmedy equivalent of insurance company killings.

5. I love it when Barack says those laugh line things that nobody can disagree with.

“I just want insurance to be accountable, too.” Everybody stands and claps. Joe Wilson tells the truth. Obama, you’re a liar.

Have a nice day, rachel

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:25 pm 59. Steve DeMarcus:

It seems that all the air has finally been let out of this hot air balloon especially when Joe Wilson the South Carolina Congressman poked a gaping hole in by saying “You Lie” which as far as the whole speech goes was in its simplest form true. He blurted this out when the president was saying that illegal aliens would not be covered by “his plan” which he did not write and neither has he read. See the Congressional Research Report that says other wise right here

http://opencrs.com/document/R40773/

Yes Joe Wilson was right and yes Obama was lying pretty much throughout the entire speech. Stuff it all in your liberal pot pipes and smoke that garbage.

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:37 pm 60. RE:

51. Vasio:

Here it is Carla #41 the us against them mentality.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with an ‘us against them mentality’ when it is appropriate – and it is most definitely appropriate when politicians attmept such a power grab. They need to stopped – not accomodated.

Gotta side with carly on this! Rep. Wilson is far closer to the truth than is Obama.

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:39 pm 61. KB:

Vasio #51: Being president is not easy and to respect that fact is to respect the president. Your opinion is your opinion, but respect is due to everyone, unless they did something to you to not deserve respect. The president has did nothing to you personally to not have your respect.

Respect is earned, dipshit.

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:50 pm 62. Gaffe Prices:

We’ve pretty well reached the stage of critical mass, media wise, that is: It is common knowledge now that this administration is out of control.

To paraphrase Frank Luntz: We are to believe that the compassion of the IRS, combined with the Fiscal soundness of Social Security and Medicare, along with the efficiency of Katrina, will lead to a savings of 2.5 trillion dollars: enough to pay for the program itself!!

All projections of Soc. Security and Medicare, when they were signed in to “Law” were hundreds of billions under-estimated: the cost of Medicare, for example, was projected in 1964, to cost 60 billion dollars annually.

Perhaps they should call, uh, a cccoommmiiittteee hearings, to uncover fraud and waste…

A sad and parasitic paradox of ironies for a party and an administration obsessed with control.

“…We are going to control costs!

The trolls don’t even know where to begin: they sputter and spin their wheels into a muddy ditch, and then they try to blame that on global warming (!!)

they’re not even as hysterically funny as they used to be, hounded and haunted as they are by the frighteningly scary prospect that not even the precious über elite are immune from the tires of that bus they are summarily thrown under. (My G-d! maybe no oneis really “safe”.)

The rest of the world, however, now sees that it is safe to act up (or act out, in the therapeutic parlance) embroiled as we are in domestic fraud, malfeasance, and false premises.

So now our “friends” are both foreign and domestic in this *bing* magical wand phantasy-escape-hatch that is the end product of Leftist nihilism. (Wagner’s concept of Gotterdammerung pales in comparison).

These guys crave complicity, just as Lenin, Stalin, and Brezhnev craved legitimacy (from their western opponents)

They never learn, selectively applying the national socialist villains trope on their opposition in an endless blank checkbook of situational ethics, and call it “pragmatism”.

If I was inclined to engage in the same psycho-psychiatric games as they do, I would conclude that they suffer from the poorest form of potty training. And ask “what better proof do we need for “pre-K?” (which is probably on the docket for next year…

You see where this all leads guys?

Or can’t you take a joke anymore you stuffy, rigid, cheerless, orthodox irrationalists?)

Didn’t think so. But maybe you still have a taste for the lyric rime: http://tinyurl.com/p6m3t2

But/because there’s more: Un-confirmed-by-the-senate Tsar Cass Sunstone has a scheme to rid the countryside of hunters and their firearms, that won’t, of course, apply to urban gangs…

Jeffrey Holdren has a scheme to “control” (there’s that word again…) the population explosion.

And so as not to belabour the point, the whole 33 of them are an as-yet unconfirmed freak show, so let’s move on to the confirmed members of the administration’s cabinet.

Oh, yes, almost forgot, World Health Organisation and UN declared “Swine” flu to be a matter of “national security-emergency-urgency-crisis-” back in March (and not rescinded), or was that Department of Homeland “Security”?

So bibio, go cut and paste and print out or whatever you have to do; flag your pit boss and cheer him/her, as well as the rest of your crew, up with this latest example of heresy for your crackpot religion, and then try more hyperbole and cowbell this time: the ad hominem is a little worn out, and besides, 0bama came up with a whole division of straw men last night to back you up with, so don’t be so down in the dumps, for the time being.

But I have news for you “bibio”: your spirits will break well before you ever even get close to ours; your achilles heal is your vanity, your grandiosity, and your singular conceit.

(But don’t take it personal: I’m on the same team as you, *wink* *wink*, I just work at a different location than you, mums the word)

BH, you are one colossal fool: Saddam Hussein has his fingerprints and his bloody hands all over the OKC Murrow building bombing. McVeigh was involved, but he was but the lowly driver; incapable of plotting, and executing the deed by himself. It did not originate with him but he was a perfectly willing stooge. It originated with Iraqi secret police and was brought to this country via a dozen Iraqi national guard, using stolen Kuwaiti passports from their Kuwaiti invasion. All this was exhaustively documented by NBC local affiliate reporter Jayna Davis, -not to mention the FBI- who began covering up the evidence by a dozen witnesses of two (other) accomplices (Iraqi) who fled the scene, (reported in newspapers in the first two days), one who stood trial for a lesser charge and disappeared before sentencing, on bail. -In favor of a simpler narrative, that did not involve an act of war, by a foreign power, and required a proportional response, in favor of the simpler domestic “crime” narrative for the simpler court prosecution that had identified a simple singular citizen perp. yeah, ask questions indeed, you can find answers

So a “man-made disaster” really does differ from a foreign “policy” boo boo

This is the first president in history who will have his whole presidency declared null and void, because you can bet those democrats in well fed government sure do want to get re-elected next year; because if they are not on the short list for a Gulf Stream Jet, they are as sure as s-chip gonna charter a bus of their own to throw this administration under, and time is running out.

Cause you see: you forgot; the pen is mightier than the crashing, feckless, inane boor.

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:51 pm 63. catherine:

I think the moment Obama described certain people as getting “all wee-weed up” we knew he was no Lincoln.Too bad he did not use this quote in his talk to schoolchildren–they find this language most humorous.

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:56 pm 64. Diddy Kong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3xMaZPdi8s&feature=related

Go ahead. Call me a racist.

Sep 10, 2009 - 1:58 pm 65. Dave:

I wonder if Vasio is one of our usual malevolent screaming harpies, or a new one. I’ll ignore it’s ignorant insults and just talk about the issue.

The point about the war is a very weak one. Except for a few fringe leftists (Thomas Freidman type who think dictatorships are just grand), the country and the congress was able to form a consensus, albeit briefly, that ridding the region of a terror supporting, genocidal, WMD chasing dictator was worth the cost – a cost that is closed end in nature. Eventually we will be done in Iraq one way or the other. Hopefully the Iraqi’s will put the opportunity given them to good use.

However, this massive leftist power grab to make every single American dependent on the Federal Government for their health care is an open ended social program that history tells us will cost 5 times what we are being told and will be open ended. Without major rationing, it is not sustainable. The endless lies about not trying to create a single payer socialized system when we have the President and an endless number of his cronies on tape saying just that shows the lack of honesty on his part.

There is a very transparent agenda. They understand that they cannot end our free market system and create a socialist state all at once. So they are “using the crisis” (Rahm Emanual’s words, not mine) to push in that direction in smaller increments.

Free market reform is really the only way we get an effective and sustainable system. Hopefully we wake up to that fact before its too late.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:12 pm 66. paul_unalaska:

As most, I enjoy the comments posted. Though Vasio, you are an Obamabot of epic proportions.

‘To scream lie in a speech given..’ – No, instead Harry Reid went to the media after a W Bush speech, not to W’s face or discussed with him privately, and called him a liar. What a gutless turd.

‘Respect is due to everyone’ – No, respect is given when earned. I’m no longer in the military and think otherwise.

The rest of your rant is like reading a Hunter S. Thompson op-ed.. yikes!

The failed attempts of these sanctimonious, elitist bureaucrats to ‘improve’ our daily life has worn out its welcome.

This Manchurian Candidate in-Chief is beyond inept.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:16 pm 67. Neo:

Barack Obama is poorly educated. He does not possess a keen analytical mind. Our current president cannot think and follow a logical argument if his life depended on it.

I disagree (and I won’t call you names).

There is a big difference between being able to make a logical argument and having a logical argument that wins the day. I’m unconvinced about the former, but I’m sure about the latter. Obama is caught between a wish to achieve much and cold hard facts that make it impossible to do that.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:21 pm 68. billslayer:

JHARP!:Yes, your Messiah is uneducated, except in the oldest trade in the world. As you well know he got his start turning tricks for a slumlord by the name of Tony Rezko.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:24 pm 69. Steve DeMarcus:

Did anyone really think he would actually come up with something new other than one lie after another? The guy is a FARCE and now needs investigations if not about his birth records (as well as all other ones) but about his mental health which we also do not know.

At least when Joe Wilson called him out after one lie after another I hope the next change we see will be Obama in a straight jacket!

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:28 pm 70. More responses to Obama’s latest monumentally historical speech « Nebraska Redneck:

[...] [...]

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:33 pm 71. Someone Who Knows:

I don’t understand why people don’t understand Barack Obama.

There is a concept that begins with a “b” and rhymes with “pull fit.”

That is what he is always giving out in his speeches, both prepared and spontaneous.

Let me rephrase that so people can understand.

Obama does not do a lot of deep thinking. He just makes stuff up, puts it into a slick phrase, and does this all the time hoping that he is always becoming more influential, and thus more powerful. For Barack Obama, life is a high stakes college bull session.

Power is his one, true addiction, and he will never sober up.

Why do people think that Obama is more complicated than that?

I am calling b______t on this president.

The goal of conservatives should be to expose these truths about Obama so that he is no longer politically effective. Keep him boxed in so he can’t harm the country further with his made-up, cockamamie b______t plans. Then, parlay that political advantage intoto electoral victories in 2010 and 2012.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:51 pm 72. mingus:

What is really funny is that the current generations concept of history goes back maybe 10 years, at the outside. Ignorance is the current cultural standard.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:52 pm 73. uncommon sense:

Cass the Ass Sunstein beleives animals should have the “right to sue” in court. Maybe the “great white shark” in “jaws” might want to sue C(ass), maybe youd like to stick your head between his jaws and find out. Or else maybe Clyde the Orangatang from the Clint Eastwood movies ,C(ass). Cass the ass also wants forced organ removal, even from live patients who he decides arent worth living any more. And this NUT is a HARVARD PROFESSOR. So much for a so called Ivy League “education”, remember Van Jones(house boy for Soros) was a so called Yale “law s chool”(wonder whose Law firm he “worked” for) graduate. All these stupid libscum-go volunteer to work for Cass the Ass representing ani mals in court. Brahma the bull will “gore” you at his pleasure.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:53 pm 74. D'oh:

A few things the brilliant, well-educated Obama doesn’t, or didn’t, know:
- How many states there are
- That Austrians speak German
- That Joe was right (the plumber and the congressman).
- That he was born before ‘Selma’ could have influenced his parents
- That Jeremiah Wright is a racist.
- That government entities formed to ration health care are justifiably called “Death Panels”
- That Bill Ayers is an unrepentant former terrorist
- That Neda Agha Soltani deserved his support, but Manuel Zelaya does not
- That refusing medical care to the victims of botched abortions is infanticide
- That ‘mom jeans’ aren’t cool
- etc ad infinitum

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:54 pm 75. All wee-wee’d up and no place to go. « POWIP:

[...] the day after President Obama’s Heroic!, Historic!, Game Changing! health care address to Congress; you know, the one where he basically repeated the same lies [...]

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:56 pm 76. BrainTrust:

Obama has all of the depth and charm of a pointy nosed fishwife wielding a rolling pin. Nag, nag, nag, scold, scold, scold.

Axelrod better start writing better advertising copy for Obama to recite or this is one marketing campaign that is “heard that before … 110 times”. Aint buying.

Sep 10, 2009 - 2:59 pm 77. people really do have the shortest memories… : NO QUARTER:

[...] who could forget about Obama hiring Van Jones? A guy who called Republicans assholes, said white polluters steer toxins into minority [...]

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:02 pm 78. LeighB:

Now, uncommon sense, there might be some good things that come from Cass Sunstein getting my pet the right to sue. Now, I think our President was born in Hawaii but my cat, she’s not so sure. She has a right to know the truth and would like to join any of the complaints that have been filed. And her friend, Chippy, who lives across the street, thinks Obama might not be an American either. And he wants to know too. /sarcasm off

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:09 pm 79. Scott:

Dave Thompson wrote: Nothing could be further from the truth. Barack Obama possesses a high I.Q.—and is also someone who benefited from Harvard’s affirmative action policies. One can be both at the same time!

Dave you cherry picked from my statement, you left out the “moronic fool” part. I agree it is entirely possible to be highly intelligent AND benefit from AA, however it is not possible to be highly intelligent (as some have said of Obama) and unintelligent (as others have said of Obama) at the same time.

@ #31: I would love to see Obama’s teleprompter go on the fritz for a major speaking engagement, in fact PJM has a parody about just such an event.

@ #48: I never claimed Obama was qualified, in fact your assessment is pretty accurate, but as I said we need to get our arguments/logic correct. Either Obama is intelligent or he’s not we cannot have it both ways, otherwise we look like the idiots with BDS. you know the ones, they claimed Bush was a retard who could only get Cs because of his wealth and connections. Yet at the same time Bush was the evil mastermind behind 9/11 who was using it as an excuse for American Imperialism and was a re-incarnated Hitler who was going to take over the world.

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:09 pm 80. Michael:

One thing that must be kept foremost in mind when listening to President Obama is that he hates what Americans are now, he hates what our fathers stood for, and he hates our grandfathers and everything they worked and fought and died for.

He tells America that every time he gets in front of a microphone. Health care is just one more tick mark on his list to “remake America brick by brick.” He wants to remake America because he despises everything America has ever stood for.

His heroes appear to be the “presidents” of Venezuela, Iran, Russia and the constitutionally deposed president of Honduras. Judge a man by his associates and by his actions. Words not backed by action are just dust in the wind. The left seem to think the tears they shed when Obama talks is something more than just irritation.

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:20 pm 81. Cybergeezer:

Barack intelligent? Ho, ho, ho. Without a prepared speech, he can’t put together a decent sentence.
To date, he has shown NO penchant for any niche of knowledge or expertise. And never had occasion to have to show responsibility for anything.
In debate? He hasn’t had to debate anyone whom hasn’t been afraid of their own shadow. And again, prepared cue cards to speak from.
I know a horse that can count more accurately than Barack Obama.
This guy is a sham, and he doesn’t care what laws are passed with his signature, as long as he gets to write another book to brag about his (hollow) accomplishments.

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:36 pm 82. Doug Wright:

Obama and the Dem’s Healthcare bill(s) are simply about more governmental control over our lives, nothing lee, nothing more! Once this additional layer of control is in place, the Feds may use our bank accounts directly as they wish, may dictate how we live, may decide what medical care we receive, may dictate our life style, including where and how we live, just a few very simply ways in what Obama and his cadre are working towards!

Of course, if we individually misbehave, against the Feds wishes, Rahm will send us a fish, wrapped in old papers, for our dinner; yummy!

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:43 pm 83. Doug Wright:

Oops: “nothing lee” should be “nothing less!”

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:45 pm 84. Meryl:

Vasio 27, 29: So. Apparently unless we hold office we don’t have the right to (1) an opinion, (2) making statements based on facts or (3) opposing policies of the regime?

Ok. Got it.

Your posts read like an assignment for an ESL class.

But there I go again. Having an opinion while not holding elective office. My bad.

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:56 pm 85. william mony:

to vasio

boy,are you a comedian??, if not think of a career as we one because as van jones would say ‘youse are good”

i love when you used jesus christ at the end to justify why we should give obama respect, and or, let him steamroll any legislation over us with it be loss of liberty or extreme tyranny

you have to go back to the daily kos, or move on, and report you “showed us good” on this board and taught us through your lithium driven rants why we should support your saviour, barackus

if you believe in barack so much, please, lead by example, donate all your income and time to the govt so your saviour can institute the policies you believe in so much.

as for me, I will value liberty and worship the true saviour who you insult by even mentioning him in the same breath with the fraud barack.

wm

Sep 10, 2009 - 3:59 pm 86. Calvin Ball:

74. D’oh, there’s no such thing as an “unrepentant former terrorist”. You’re either repentant, or you’re a terrorist forever. Is there a such thing as a “former child molester”? Diddle one kid when you’re 20, and you’re a child molester when you’re 77.

Same with terrorists. Arafat went to his grave a terrorist. Once you kill people, you can’t be rehabilitated. The best you can do is like Walid Shoebat, repent, turn your life around, and dedicate it to fighting terrorism. If there’s anyone in the world who deserves the forgiveness of the title of “former terrorist”, it’s Shoebat.

Sep 10, 2009 - 4:00 pm 87. Sebastian Shaw:

As if his pointless shallow speech was not enough, the One is going to be on 60 Minutes to have reporters ask fluffy questions. Obama is going to do himself in with his overexposure & his Marxist ideas for America.

Sep 10, 2009 - 4:02 pm 88. AtheistConservative:

“On what planet do you spend most of your time”

The planet where Obama:

- Thinks there are 57 states
- Believes companies ‘take out’ profits
- Believes doctors steal your legs for $50K
- Believes doctors steal your tonsils for $10K
- Believes you can ‘catch’ breast cancer
- Believes you can spend more and save money
- Believes government health care will be ‘more efficient’ but we can get $500 billion out of Medicare with ’savings’

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Obama is criminally ignorant and very poorly-educated. There is no arguing the point.

Sep 10, 2009 - 4:03 pm 89. gracie:

No matter how you look at Obama, he is an embarrassment to have as the President of the greatest nation on this earth. His speech only served to infuriate everyone I have spoken with.

He appears to be mushy, apologetic for us to foreign powers..he need not apologize for me.

I don’t think he has an original idea in his head, and I’m sick of seeing him on TV. “Time to stop bickering” my sweet a$$..it has only just begun. To Obama an opposing opinion amounts to bickering. So Bicker on!!!

He acts like the upperclassman that tries to act so cool by belittling the underclassman. ‘cept I’m not that easily intimidated, hope none of you are either.

He will not “permit”…crap

I’m even angrier that there are SO many things in the “health care plan” that do NOT PERTAIN TO HEALTH CARE IN ANYWAY!!!!
… No one asks about that point!!!

Sep 10, 2009 - 4:04 pm 90. dkb:

Most comments here are “right on”

someone who constantly says one thing, but does another, is a liar, simple but true

respect is earned, and obama, as one person put it on here; has accomplished nothing

he was a “no show” at his senate job, I suspect he got mediocre grades, and community organizer is one step below mob “protection” without the colorful figures

Obama thought America would just go along with his plans, and to his suprise, we aren’t buying what he is selling

DKB

Sep 10, 2009 - 4:06 pm 91. Mike, CO:

VDH:

Obama has proven that he is superficial, yet when confronted with it the press refrain from criticism. Obama subversively tries to yank the conservative chain, then the media respond. Obama’s political strategy is unsustainable, as he continually choses division over unity. We can only expect the political climate to get worse with his poor judgement and execution.

Obama insults his opponents and denies his shortcomings, so one task is to show superior wisdom by recording and analyzing his Presidency so that his mistakes will not be repeated.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:00 pm 92. Ruebacca:

19. Scott:

“Ok folks we can’t have it both ways, he’s either a moron or intelligent but he can’t be both. Educated idiot? Sure, I’ve met plenty of those. ”

Obama just does not understand or respect Anglo-Saxons.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:18 pm 93. patmanshardt.blogspot.com:

Vasio: So your arguments in favor of Obama are:

1. That if you don’t agree or like Obama it’s because you are jealous you’re not president;

2. Because Obama won you have to be happy about it;

3. Because he is the President, Obama must know more than anyone else about any particular issue;

4. If Obama wasn’t qualified to be president he wouldn’t be? (I’m no “birther”, but I couldn’t let the circular reasoning here stand without comment).

This is lame, even for a troll.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:19 pm 94. wickerbasket:

Dr. Hanson, it was a good article, but since I respect you so much I have to correct your horrendous interpretation of the biblical prophets.

Moses is the only one who may do anything like what you say when he orders the levites to kill there brothers after the trouble with the golden calf. Also Moses apparently spends 80 days and nights praying so that Israel will not be destroyed because of their sins. He also helps judge right and wrong for Israel until more judges are set up since the job is too large. Joshua tells the people that they will not keep his commandments right after he leads them into battle to get exactly what they wanted. And Moses has the book of Deuteronomy where he tells the generation that actually follows his words that later generations will fall away. He tells the others that want to set up an altar on the east of the Jordan that if they do they will die like their parents which is obviously in the context of not wanting them to die since he allows it after they explain. The judges never do any such thing. Samson even goes after the evils of the world. Maybe one could claim that the extermination of most of the tribe of benjamin was something of the sort, but it was more a punishment for allowing men to walk around raping people so much that they died. The people of benjamin would not allow these people to be punished by the law which brought on the very severe punishment.

Samuel, when he was rejected by the people in favor of a king, gave the people a king in the name of the Lord. David did not kill anyone after the war between Judah, Benjamin and the rest of Israel, because he was just gald to be king. Nathan rebuked David as he should have been rebuked for murder and quasi-rape. Elijah was being hunted down so that he would be killed, and all the prophets were being killed in the name of Baal which is one of the reasons that the prophets of Baal were killed by Elijah. Jehu is called to account for the murder of the princes of Ephrain in the book of AMos even though it was said that it was the word of the Lord. Obviously he shouldn’t have done it.

Elijah keeps the captives who are the syrians and does not kill a single one once they are blinded and in his care even though they came to attack Israel. He almost takes it as if God has given him the opportunity to show them his kindness. Elisha says nothing to Namaan, but becomes his friend later after Namaan says doing what the prophet said was stupid. He then goes back and is healed. To go back aways, Joseph did nothing when they put him in prison, but said why so sad to those in prison, and even served the pharoah to the best of his ability though people had falsely accused him. He also weeps when his brothers who sold him into slavery are brought back to him, and then he protects them. Isaac does nothing in return when the philistines drive him from his wells because of quarrels. He just leaves. Abraham has his wife taken from him who is going to give him the promised child and prays for the one who did it so that his harem will be healed and saved since the king had sinned against God.

Maybe Deborah the judge could be included since she said a curse be on those who didn’t fight against Jaban, but that seems more like giving thanks to God for the victory. The person that it does say did stuff like that was Solomon because he had started disregarding God and wanted his own glory, I guess power wouldn’t be the correct word. He then sent to kill those who were against his kingship even though it was his sins that caused it.

Then we come to the major prophets. Isaiah first of all, I guess if you count when he said to Ahaz, “you try the patience of men, will you try patience of God?” then that may be something. The people actually ended up listening to Isaiah as it says in 2 kings and 2 chronicles. Isaiah talks aobut weeping for the punishment to come on Moab and for other areas. Deutero-Isaiah was written to comfort those in exile in babylon. Otherwise there is not much insight into his life. Jeremiah weeped constantly for the people, said the same thing about crying for moab as did Ezekiel. Jeremiah did lash out about his persecuters- to God! They were also trying to kill him and ended up throwing him in a pit to starve him. He also stayed with the people after the exile he predicted happened to give them the word of God so that they would not die as well. Lamentations must be the most obvious example since Jeremiah cries throughout the whole thing. He also says in that interstingly since prophets are supposed to hate so many people. God does not willingly aflict anyone. It really is a great show of the mercy of God. He also says that God does not approve when any human beings are oppressed.

When these exilic prophets are talking about being punished it is very much in the vein of ignoring the poor, committing adultery constantly and- shedding so much innocent blood that God would not forgive it. That is what every book says about the times Israel was living in, and the prophets took this as a sign that following the idols led to wickedness, just like their tradition said.

Daniel and the lions den goes without mention so does the fiery furnace story. Ezekiel I’ve pretty much already mentioned. What it says about his life is he lost his wife and said nothing to anyone even though they apparently did not listen to him. The command from God was to show no sign that your wife had died. The only time he ever complains is when he says, “Oh Lord, they are saying of me he is only speaking parables.” Sorry I forget, Jonah did do that, but it was in the context of God showing mercy to Ninevah. He did not like that so he waited for the Ninevites to be destroyed by God, which God rebuked him for. The rest of the minor prophets are too small to say anything at all about their lives. When it does say things about their lives it is things like Hosea marrying a prostitute to show that God loved Israel even though she was unfaeithful. The prostitute cheated and he accepted her back. Habbakuk laments that when Israel will be punished a worse people will have authority so there will be all kinds of sin. God tells him to be patient and the verse you make me to wlk on my high places like a deer on the mountains is near the end. Nahum has some vindictiveness in it towards Assyria. Which probably would not have heard of the prophecy from the mouth of the prophet. The people believe Haggai and Zechariah. Malachi doesn’t really have anything. Hope that wasn’t too long. I couldn’t let that go though. I’m not mad or anything either just because I’m talking about the prophets. That’s the thought that Jesus has when he says blessed are you when they persecute you and say all kinds of evil about you for my sake for so they did to the prophets before them. I understand that people have their own ideas about the bible, but we can’t take that and make an entirely next book out of it.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:25 pm 95. Ron Kean:

29. Vasio

I don’t understand you. He’s hiding all that. Why does he hide that information? He won’t fax it to anyone.

Because he won’t let anyone know his record, that means it may have something incriminating in it.

You don’t know much about him. Neither do most people.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:41 pm 96. Anonymous:

# 85 william mony:

I don’t care about Obama, I’m not into you guys internal fight of Republican and Democrat. I am only stating fact. It takes a person who has seen other things than only America. I’ve been almost everywhere in this world and I see how other societies live and what is important to them. Americans, it’s sad, you are a very sad group of people. A Christian nation, but me mentioning Christ in the same sentence as Obama is wrong??? God loves us all. I’m sorry to say, but America is destroying itself from within. My entire family fought for this country in every war without reason, just as my family and I faught this war without reason.

The way you people are behaving makes it appear to this society, that this is a race issue. You make it look that way from your behaviors.

It’s really funny. My family is from Italy, so we see America fully because we have been somewhere else. You people have all advantages, but don’t want to have them??? It’s crazy. You people attack your neighbors and live for money. There is no family value. All you people here care for is money. A capitalistic society. Everyone calls the president dumb or stupid? But he is in office and you are not.

Of course you can have an opinion, but it sounds dumb to call someone stupid and you cannot be at their level.. That’s like guys in bars bantaring on about pro athletes sucks because he missed a pass or jump shot, but could that guy who is not a professional do any better?

Americans, very funny— But I should be a comedian. You can sit in here and blogged to your fingers get numb–But it just looks racially motivated. I know nobody here voted for Obama and it was for one reason? What can you accomplish as president in 8 months on the first term??

What did any President accomplish after 8 months in office???? Please tell me?

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:43 pm 97. David W. Lincoln:

Lets draw a comparison between the United States and Canada. There are people in Canada who see the problems of the current health care system. But, any change that is proposed is instantaneously demonized. So, why lose votes on that?

An alternative needs to be communicated, and preferably by higher profile people. That is the only way to change the latest gambit of Agent Zero and his Zombies from transforming
the United States into just another country.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:44 pm 98. Vasio:

# 85 william mony:

I don’t care about Obama, I’m not into you guys internal fight of Republican and Democrat. I am only stating fact. It takes a person who has seen other things than only America. I’ve been almost everywhere in this world and I see how other societies live and what is important to them. Americans, it’s sad, you are a very sad group of people. A Christian nation, but me mentioning Christ in the same sentence as Obama is wrong??? God loves us all. I’m sorry to say, but America is destroying itself from within. My entire family fought for this country in every war without reason, just as my family and I faught this war without reason.

The way you people are behaving makes it appear to this society, that this is a race issue. You make it look that way from your behaviors.

It’s really funny. My family is from Italy, so we see America fully because we have been somewhere else. You people have all advantages, but don’t want to have them??? It’s crazy. You people attack your neighbors and live for money. There is no family value. All you people here care for is money. A capitalistic society. Everyone calls the president dumb or stupid? But he is in office and you are not.

Of course you can have an opinion, but it sounds dumb to call someone stupid and you cannot be at their level.. That’s like guys in bars bantaring on about pro athletes sucks because he missed a pass or jump shot, but could that guy who is not a professional do any better?

Americans, very funny— But I should be a comedian. You can sit in here and blogged to your fingers get numb–But it just looks racially motivated. I know nobody here voted for Obama and it was for one reason? What can you accomplish as president in 8 months on the first term??

What did any President accomplish after 8 months in office???? Please tell me?

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:44 pm 99. Banned by Huffpo:

Oh, come now! Why don’t you just admit it?

You don’t like Der Leader’s “health reform” because you are a racist.

Anyone who disagrees with the New Messiah is a racist. That’s what it’s all about.

Poll numbers going into the toilet? Racism.

Don’t like trillion dollar deficits?

You racist, you!

Think Obambie is an empty suit, long on bluster and way short on substance?

You, sir or madam, are a racist!

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:50 pm 100. Anonymous:

No more bickering says the brown eyed handsome man.

Threatening, though, is okay.

Scaring, though, is fine.

Lying, though, is excellent. It puts you at the head of the class.

Sep 10, 2009 - 5:54 pm 101. gofer:

Remember the “Peter Principle”? See Obama.

Sep 10, 2009 - 6:37 pm 102. ETAB:

Obama, as has been noted, is a narcissist – and a pathological one, which means he’s immune to treatment. I suspect he long ago moved into this ‘cocoon’ where he set himself up in a world where he must control all interactions.

He is, in addition, ignorant, uneducated, shallow and – lacks curiosity. That is, he has no interest in becoming informed about economics, political systems, history..for his mode of existence has been, not via any ability to understand, obtain facts and analyse a situation. His strategy of life has been pure manipulation of others – via misformation (aka lying); emotional manipulation using hope and fear..and accusations of bias if you disagree with him.

These strategies, which he portrays in performing Himself as a ‘charmin’ teenager’, with his smile, his winks, his jokes, his stamping his foot to get his way..may he worked with his grandmother..but are hardly the behaviour of a president.

I suggest that Obama is the Performer for a BackRoom Gang of hardcore radical socialists – whose agenda is to radically transform this republic into socialist state.

I also suggest that they, and via Obama (who hasn’t a clue about what he says, which is why he’s so full of lies and contradictions)…are using Health Care as the Basic Infratructure of Socialist Change.

After all, the reality isthat there is NO crisis of health care. And over 80% of Americans are satisfied. And note, Obama’s plan doesn’t kick in until 2013. AFTER the next election. Hmmm.

So, the disastrous results of this proposal won’t be felt until after that election. But the socialist infrastructure will be in place.

Oh- and getting it through, will be a major election strategy for Obama, as he fills his electoral followers with illegals and other Democratic ‘I will do no work-but give me a house, car and everything’ type of people.

So, I suggest that this Health Bill has nothing to do with health, but is a Trojan Horse for a socialist takeover of this Republic..and an election strategy for 2012.

Sep 10, 2009 - 6:39 pm 103. Now and Then:

In microcosm (that means a little thing that looks like a big thing) here is what makes conservative media so pathetic. Why you would believe anything this guy says is beyond any right-thinking person, and you know that.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909100006

Need more proof? Easy. Someone will say, “Oh, like Media Matters is credible.” First, they are. They offer far more supporting context than Fox News could ever dream of. Second, this clip stands on its own. But you won’t admit to that, because if you did, you would have to say to Sean “I’ll be waterboarded for charity” Hannity, “You lie!”

Won’t watch a clip from Media Matters? Fine, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsg_fQB_RBQ

Sep 10, 2009 - 6:49 pm 104. Dred Scott:

There will be health care for illegals because, as with gay marriage, the Supremes will say so and no executive or law enforcement officer will oppose them. Any provision against providing services to illegals will be found to violate the “equal protection” clause. You just have to get to U.S. soil and stand on it for standing. MALDEF, La Raza, ACLU will do rest.

Sep 10, 2009 - 6:57 pm 105. Samizdat:

D’oh at 74,

Could you imagine what the Marx/libs would say if President Bush had uttered any of these things? Remember, anyone who doesn’t agree with them is either stupid or fascist.

They are so consumed by their irrational ideology that they don’t realize that Hitler was a SOCIALIST, a lefty like them; not a righty, capitalist, freedomm and liberty advocate like Ronald Reagan, Ben Franklin or James Madison.

The Marx/libs are as disconected from historical context as they are from economic reality and human nature.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:01 pm 106. David Thomson:

“I suspect he got mediocre grades”

We can pretty well take that for granted. If Barack Obama had received fantastic grades—-the American public would never hear the end of it! We would constantly be reminded about his proven brilliance. Carol Platt Liebau said that Obama rarely performed his duties as editor of the Harvard Law Review. He obtained that honor primarily as a compromise candidate. Obama was willing to behave politely towards the more conservative staff members. This was not usually the case with the other leftists. They are often downright rude.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:04 pm 107. Now and Then:

Hey, great news! John Stossel is headed to ClusterFox News! He’ll fit right in, bitch that he is:

youtube.com/watch?v=zrX9Ca7LSyQ

and of course,

http://www.reason.com/news/show/29067.html

Which makes you wonder why an elitist like John would be so adamantly opposed to POOR people getting HEALTH insurance.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:09 pm 108. Donna V.:

Oh, let’s not make the same mistake our enemies did in 2004 and “misunderestimate” Barry.

I don’t think he’s a moron. He’s a smooth, wily political operator. Chicago was probably a more useful school for him than Harvard.

But he knows very little history (and what he does know has been filtered through Marxist and pc POVs). He has never had a real job that I know of, not even burger-flipping in high school. He has spent most of his life being flattered and cosseted by guilty white liberals.

One can be very intelligent without having either common sense or wisdom. Glibness and snark are much in evidence in our culture. Wisdom and common sense? Not so much.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:11 pm 109. TLM:

Obama seems to acknowledge in his speech that the health care system is not in crisis the way, say, the economy is or was. Why then the rush to ram through a massive overhaul? Because it’s a political crisis for Obama.

Note the petulant, almost angry, tone of Obama’s delivery. This is personal for him. The Leftists are calling this battle their Waterloo. Conservatives see it as just another BS Big Government grab for power. But for Obama, this issue is his first real gut check as president.

“Health care reform” has morphed into a different beast entirely. Somehow I don’t really think it’s about Dearly Departed Ted, or the poor uninsured twentysomething year olds, or even screening colonoscopies.

This is now about the Big 0 and the fate of his presidency. People are starting to realize he puts his pants on one leg at a time, like anybody else. Hell, if’n he ain’t the Messiah, why give him another trillion bucks to blow on his toadies?

By his speech, I assume Obama’s going for broke on this issue. And if he loses, his whole charade of celebutante leadership is going to come crashing down.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:18 pm 110. proreason:

“Obama never gives many concrete details, nor gets precise and concise, and now one wonders whether it is because he simply thinks he can go to the hope and change / soar like an eagle mode, and we will once more get mesmerized, or he has nothing to say at all, or both”

Wake up doc. It’s neither.

It’s because he is doing what his handlers tell him to do, like always.

And they are telling him to shove this crap sandwich down are throats.

We’re gonna take a big spoonful of fascism and we’re gonna like it.

Or he’ll call us out.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:25 pm 111. ETAB:

Now and Then – Obama’s Bill isn’t about ‘poor people getting health care’. If it were,there’s no need to insist that companies must use the public option or pay special taxes; nor need it say a word about private insurance content or operations. Nor would it make it a law for all people to have health insurance.

All it would need to do would be to provide a limited health care for people, citizens, within a certain income. But that’s not what the thousand pages of this bill is about.

If it were genuinely abou health care, then, the bill would address tort reform, which it does not; would not set up a public option, would not tax/fine employers if they maintain private coverage, etc.

I suggest that the real agenda of this bill is twofold. One, is to set up a government socialist infrastructure by moving such control into 1/6th of the economy.

The other agenda is political, to ‘honey-trap’ a naive and ignorant set of the population for the 2010 nd 2012 elections. That’s why, despite Obama declaring this is a crisis, the full disastrous effects won’t be felt until 2013.

Nothing to do with the health care of the poor. Oh,and the bill DOES enable coverage for illegals. For example, if an illegal has a child in the US, the child is covered, AND, in ths bill, so would the entire family. Neat.
Oh, and you can’t check citizenship.Heh.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:38 pm 112. adam:

Forget about Waterloo–this is the Battle of Tours, where Charles Martel stopped the Islamic invasion northward into Europe. If the public option gets in, then by hook or by crook–through administrative rules, subsequent legislation, court decisions, etc.–we will end up with government control over all of health care–from doctors’ decisions to R & D at pharmaceuticals. And once we have that, as Mark Steyn has been saying, the fundamental relationship between citizen and state is altered in ways that will be extremely difficult to reverse–if the government is official caretaker of our health, and everything we do is related to our health what, exactly, will the government not be able to tell us to do or not do?

If, on the other hand, we stop them here, their project starts to unravel–to refer to Steyn once again, up until now all they’ve been doing is throwing spaghetti against the wall, hoping at least some of it sticks. Health care is the real thing–if they are stymied here, if they are forced to realize that there are insuperable limits to their ambitions, then they can continue to do their dirty work through the judiciary, the media an international institutions, but we will have protected the all important terrain of the federal government. And a future rollback will still be possible.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:50 pm 113. Now and Then:

105. Sammy’s Date:

“They are so consumed by their irrational ideology that they don’t realize that Hitler was a SOCIALIST, a lefty like them”

Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, let me put this as gently as I can . . . You’re a dumbass! Hitler was not a socialist, even though the word “socialist” was in the name of the party. It’s a big idea to tray and wrap your encephalitic head around, I know, but it’s true. Hitler was a sociopath.

Sep 10, 2009 - 7:50 pm 114. sule:

#31 “Hang on for an interesting ride accompanied by the accusation that we drove the poor man insane by refusing his wishes. If you think one guy yelling “lies” or “liar” is bad, wait until you see Obama without a teleprompter and having a tantrum.”

Too funny…can’t hardly wait to watch this show…Okay: esconced in the comfy chair…check…facing the boob toob…check… bag of popcorn in hand…

Now where did I put that clicker? Rats!

Oh! There it is! Did I miss anything?

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:05 pm 115. william mony:

to vasio

racism my friend is absolutely NOT the reason most Americans don’t support him-he got elected didn’t he?? by a majority white nation

America has people that only care about money, sure. But not everyone. I care about it in as much I really don’t work for free. The politicians don’t CREATE anything but obstacles to the average American, who, like me, is just trying to support their family.

If i want to keep the majority of the money I work for, that is not selfishness, that is my right as a worker.

Socialism, highly overated, always runs out of OTHER peoples money.

America is a christian nation, and if the govt stayed out of things I think you would see the poor truly taken care of-not this permanent LOWER class of govt supporetd people the govt has created.

God bless,

wm

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:18 pm 116. George S.:

he promised transparency …sh!t I’d be happy with honesty.

but that isn’t happening either.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:22 pm 117. David Thomson:

“…a dumbass! Hitler was not a socialist, even though the word “socialist” was in the name of the party. It’s a big idea to tray and wrap your encephalitic head around, I know, but it’s true. Hitler was a sociopath.”

Hitler was both a socialist—and a sociopath. He was “racially pure” socialist. Only Aryans could participate in this sharing of the wealth. Outsiders were ruthlessly excluded. Hitler considered capitalism to be a Jewish plot to weaken the moral and genetic fiber of German society. The Nazis were not called national socialists for nothing. On the contrary, it was the beginning and end of their movement. The collective was always considered of far greater importance than the mere individual.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:27 pm 118. A.W. Murphy:

As he demonstrated last night, Obama is a petulant child unschooled in adult behaviors. His tantrums are becoming tiresome as is his constant whining about how unfairly his mean, nasty critics treat him.

I was struck by the overtly hostile tone Obama seemed to carry throughout the entire speech. He reminded me of a whiny child who didn’t get his way and is now laying down his reasons for revenge.

From a historical viewpoint it will go down as one of the least effective speeches of modern times – and surely one of the most mean spirited. Obama, like most liberals, doesn’t seek to convince someone of the righteousness of his cause – he bludgeons and bullies until victory is declared.

That GOP rep from South Carolina is going to be pilloried by the left but in a sense he was the one honest person in that room last night. Everyone else knows Obama was lying but only one person had the brass to call him what he is.

Obama gave a speech he should have given months ago to salvage a proposal that has already been rejected by a majority of the American people. In doing so he not only squandered his political capital last night, but his legacy as well – barely nine months into his one term as a lame duck President.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:28 pm 119. dkb:

Vasio

we don’t want obama to accomplish anything-8 months or not

all the things he would accomplish will ultimately enslave the American people and rob us of liberty

if the government controls health care they control life,and health and freedom and much more

America is the best nation for a reason-mistrust of tyranny of a centrally strong govt, love of liberty, and belief in represntative govt on a smaller scale-local and state and separation of powers

DON’T TREAD ON ME

dkb

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:28 pm 120. e:

I am quite glad that Rep. Joe Wilson had the gal to shout “You Lie!” during Obama’s speech. Sure it wasn’t polite, but Obama WAS lying. Hell, he couldn’t even speak the truth that a public option would require higher taxes, because otherwise there wouldn’t be any way to pay for it; especially if the public plan insures the poorest who don’t have money to pay premiums anyways.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:29 pm 121. Norman Rogers:

The President really has to watch this constant return to these soaring cadences that deliver banalities. One cannot sound like Lincoln if there really is no message. It is time to move on, ignore criticism, and offer something that most can work with; instead, after 9 months we are getting a ‘they are mean to me’ whine at about every speech and photo-op, in the manner of biblical prophets who lash out at doubters.

The point needs to be made that, at some point, there’s going to come a moment where Obama actually has to make a choice and do something, rather than give a speech written by some kid who has never done anything.

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:51 pm 122. scott:

Joker at # 50,

Good thing I had solid food in my pie hole and not scotch. (imagine multiple thumbs-up emoticons here) [Anybody know how to get partially masticated scalloped potatoes off a macbook screen?]

Sep 10, 2009 - 8:54 pm 123. patmanshardt.blogspot.com:

Now and Then:

Hitler was a socialist. Socialism in Germany started under Bismark. National Socialism was just its name, but a description as well. It differed from Marxism and Soviet Communism in a few respects. It was only right wing in the sense that it was right-wing socialism.

One difference, Natzism was different in that it was nationalistic, instead of an internationally-based ideology, as was Marxism.

The other, it was top-down instead of bottom up. That is, industry and the church were largely left in place (although heavily regulated) instead of completely torn down as they would have been under Bolshevism.

Obama, seems to me to be a mix. He is clearly internationalist instead of nationalist in outlook (hence, is never-ending apologies for the U.S.). But his socialism is like Natzism, is top down (or what could be call “crony-capitalism”) leaving industry in place, but heaviy regulating it for the benefit of the state.

But, since it appears that your’re certain we’re all not as smart as you, you can feel free to completely dismiss all of the above.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:09 pm 124. Bohemond:

No, Nowandthen, you are the dumbass. hITLER’S ECONOMY WAS 100% PURE-d SOCIALIST.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:21 pm 125. chambers:

Most of the MSM is making hay out of Rep. Wilson’s “You Lie” remark. It was in poor taste but I have to wonder if it represents something more. It could, in fact, be our “Leo Amery Moment.” In 1938 Neville Chamberlain had just finished a series of humiliating appeasements of Hitler at Bad Godesburg and Munich. As we know Hitler blithely ignored the “promises” that he had given Chamberlain not to invade the rump Czech state and torn up the “peace in our time” agreements made by the British PM. Chamberlain’s response was to offer more concessions to Hitler. In the ensuing debate in Parliament Arthur Greenwood rose to respond for the Labour opposition. Leo Amery, a senior Conservative, yelled from his side of the House, “Speak for England Arthur.” Greenwood then firmly and decisively stated that any further concessions were unacceptable and could only compromise British honor. I wonder how many members of Congress thought, at the moment of Rep. Wilson’s interjection, that he was speaking, however intemperately, for America.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:27 pm 126. Bohemond:

No, Nowandthen, you are the dumbass. Refer back to your Speer. What? You’ve never read Albert Speer? “Inside the Third Reich,” the bestselling memoir of Hitler’s Production Minister? If you haven’t then you don’t know the FIRST FUCKING THING about the subject,dumbass

Of course Speer was mostly concerned with the nuts and bolts: how many tanks, how much coal, how many slave laborers. If you want to read the theoretical view, I can highly recommend Avraham Barkai’s “Nazi Economics: Ideology, Theory, and Policy.”

But of course you won’t, being both proudly ignorant, and unable to deal with facts that disturb your fictitious little liberal world view, in which something nebulously called “right wing” is Very Bad, and it has Nazis, conservatives, televangelists, Wall Street and al-Qaeda all jumbled up in there somewhere. The fact that the Ultimate Right Wing Evil, the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, would really have practiced your beloved socialism would simply not compute.

“The difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian one is a matter of time.”

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:29 pm 127. inspectorudy:

I was very disappointed tonight to see Newt on Greta talking about healthcare. He proposed 5 items and actually thinks that there is about $50-$60 billion in waste and fraud in Medicare per year. He’s got to be smoking something. Then he said that he was for “Best treatment practise” which is a system where a board decides which treatment is the best and most cost effective for ALL doctors to use. If a doctor uses a different treatment then he will face penalties including loss of income. What is he smoking? He was for portability, insurance law changes concerning pre-existing conditions and dropping customers when they develop expensive to treat problems. We can all agree with these but what it shows me is that Newt is a little too intellectual sometimes and can bog down into the realm of a nerd. I’m open to believing that Obama is brilliant and has a high IQ but so far there is no documentary proof of any of it and there is certainly no empherical evidence of it!

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:42 pm 128. Calvin Ball:

I don’t think he’s a moron. He’s a smooth, wily political operator.

I’m with Thompson on this one. He’s a one-trick pony. On a good day, his IQ might be 120. The clothes have no emperor.

Clinton’s a lot smarter (either one, but especially Bill), but they got cocky, and Team Obama got lucky. Team Obama is a lot less impressive now than they appeared last November, as well.

And let’s not even get started about Pelosi.

Sep 10, 2009 - 9:44 pm 129. Calvin Ball:

125. chambers, I’ll say it again. If eight years of paper mache heads and Code Pink freak shows didn’t hurt the donkeys, this won’t hurt the elephants. I don’t see any empirical evidence to support the idea that boorish behavior is a political liability.

The left in the media invested a lot in convincing the public that flamboyant protest is a good thing. Now they’re scratching their heads wondering why they can’t undo all of that overnight.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:11 pm 130. Anonymous:

112. adam
“Forget about Waterloo–this is the Battle of Tours”

Indeed.

However, wherein our congressional representation is there a hammer to bend their incumbency interests into alignment with our conservative goals?

The single objection to the mendacity of our historic first Islamic apostate president, whose relentless flow of insipid sophistry conveyed a much greater insult to the solemnity and decorum of our highest venue for political deliberation, had to be transacted into an apology as restitution for the offense of lèse-majesté.

The only debate that remains consists of naming our future form of government aristocratic, oligarchic, fascist, or communist.

Sep 10, 2009 - 10:36 pm 131. vivo:

All I see here is a bunch of wackos getting their daily dose of Obamaphobia.

I’m getting my dose of geliophilia.

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:01 pm 132. bill:

Whoa this one really brought the kooks out from under the rocks Doc. Most hilarious was the poster citing Frank “IT’S NOT WHAT YOU SAY, IT’S WHAT PEOPLE HEAR” Luntz, the master of deceptive linguistics as an authority on healthcare. And then God, The Bible, Hitler – wow.

Many of these folks just plain hate Obama. At least dkb is an honest person. We shudder to think of the backlash should dkb and the obstructionists get their way. This country is far too divided. Far too much simmering anger. We haven’t even gotten to the hard stuff like Afghanistan yet.

dkb:

“we don’t want obama to accomplish anything-8 months or not”

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:23 pm 133. Meryl:

122. Scott….ok, your reference to 50 sent me back there to read–missed it since I haven’t been on earlier…..I had the same reaction you did, except I’m choking on snack crackers and trying to keep the laughing down so I don’t wake the rest of the family already asleep…..50 is funny:>

Sep 10, 2009 - 11:44 pm 134. Anonymous:

Ed Wallis, 36.

I’m afraid your theory is correct. In the past eight months the scaly wags, these sociopathic socialists Democratic rascals have, due to public outcry against socialized medicine, changed their end game.

Theirs is now a scorched earth type policy. Whatever they can spend, eat or steal, from now to 2010 they will. They’re trying to ruin everything they can so the rest of us can’t make use of it.Maybe they’ll start wearing pants with bigger pockets that hold more money.

We’ve got them on the run.

I’ve been asked to head a militia groups’ communcation division. Heavily armed, is all I’ll say. Mixture of white and black, chips on shoulder, educated. I don’t know where they’re from, many recent grads I suspect of Iraq. My dad’s pulled me out of school because he got wind of the overture to me. Drove to Stanford. Repeated to him that I want to be the first female office under U.S.M.C. (U.S. Militia Command. So Dad drove all the way to school. Now I’m in Connecticut. Under Dad’s house arrest.

The Democrats know they can’t win this thing now even if they jam health care down our throats.

They know they’re getting killed in the 2010 elections. So their time line for pocket stuffing with green backs has changed; shrunk like their gonads.

Democrats made a hellishly bad strategic mistake getting these czars in unvetted. Now the FBI types are going to be like kids in a candy shop separating the ones on tape out to destroy American as Communistas and the ones on tape who swear to be facists out to destroy America.

This Panther thing revisited has a shelf life of about 6 months or so before it blows up in Calder’s face. He’ll lie to take the sword for Obama.

Ed, this is no longer about health care.

Though if I was a reporter I would have loved to jumped all over Obama and Rahm asking them why they thought Polosi calling Americans Nazis amounted to nothing more than bickering.

If Obama thinks the bickering is over, what he’s really saying is that they’ll be no more quarrels about petty things. BICKERING. WHAT A HAUGHTY, HIGH HAT WORD TO USE. IT’S ALMOST LIKE PROOF YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT’S BEEN GOING ON. HAVEN’T A CLUE WHAT’S GOING ON. IS BARACK STUPID OR DOES HE JUST SOUND LIKE IT?

I don’t call 6% of the GNP petty. Especially when the government wants to take it over. Even in 1945, the last time we won a big war it must have been the most inefficiently fought on record. Bull Halsy had the choice of resigning at war’s end or being generally court martialed for the deaths of thousands of sailors and soldiers and the loss of millions of dollars of equipment when he drove his task force directly into two separate typhoons (six months apart) with no justification.

Now back to the brown eyed handsome men.

I don’t know Barack. I mean not personally, but his speech didn’t have any rhythm, like a jump shooter on an off night. Like Bo Jackson at the end of his career. He seemed off his game. Attacking. Then acting like the compromiser. Then attacking some more. Barack may have even told a few lies, too. Which is nothing new. He has the slave media to cover for him. I will say, though, that the 900 million cost for ObamaCare got a chuckle out of me.

And all that waste and fraud and efficiency he plans to find. Barack literally is living the dream.

In about a year, I’m thinking Ron Howard and Barack could get together and do a wonderful movie about a guy who seemingly had it all.

And then lost it all.

Call it, “A Beautiful Mind II” Maybe Russel Crow can play Barack. They’re both handsome and pretty much the same age. Just an idea.

Whoops. Dad just called me downstairs. He’s all for taking back Ameican. He just doesn’t think his only daughter, Rachel, should be involved.

I’m back. He says be downstairs at 7 am tomorrow morning, sharp. We’re playing in a foresome. Dad’s got something up his sleeve. But Dad doesn’t know Rachel’s got something in her purse. A little P-38 my Uncle gave me when I graduated from high schools. The Germans may have had some screwy ideas. But they sure did know how to hand fit a gun.

Not everybody knows, but hand guns are one of the leading causes of erectile disfunction in rapists.

Well, it’s time to hit the hay. I may be getting in over my head, but, heck, that didn’t stop those guys that risked their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor.

I’m just lil’ ole’ blue eyed blond haired Rachel, but every day that goes by looks more and more like I’ve got a war to settle.

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:00 am 135. Samizdat:

Bohemond at 126,

Thank you for adding to the discussion by contributing your thoughts on the German National Socialists. It’s too bad that Marx/libs know so little about their own history, it’s quite instructive.

Hitler’s policy of lebensraum was an example of Marxist vs Marxist competition and blood sport. Marxist’s have attempted for almost 70 years now to deflect the reality that Hitler was one of them. Glad to see that you have a firm grip on history and are not a relativist.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:24 am 136. Rashputin:

65. Dave:

“I wonder if Vasio is one of our usual malevolent screaming harpies, or a new one. I’ll ignore it’s ignorant insults and just talk about the issue.”

The writing style and word selection along with what he mocks says it’s a regular. The different name is because the daily briefing paper said to get out of, “I won, you lost” mode and go into “sweetness and cooperation” mode. Here, there, and elsewhere, it’s all “conflict mode isn’t helpful” and “we have to get out of conflict” mode now that the great speech flopped. Democrats and their media may put all sorts of spin and false polls up, but they know they didn’t sway the public last night and they know they can’t actually get enough democrats to vote this bill through unless they go the reconciliation route.

If the democrat thugs go the reconciliation route, they can no longer even pretend to give a damn about what the public wants. Taking that route on something of such magnitude would prove that their allegiance to their party supersedes their oath of office. What a fine way to end the democrat party once and for all, by letting them hang themselves on behalf of an illegal president.

Regards

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:25 am 137. Samizdat:

One more point to compliment VDH on. The author makes the point that president Obama’s lack of substance is exposed when he mistakes his opponents critique of HB3200 as “bickering”. Those of us who bothered to educate ourselves about candidate Obama knew how shallow he was and how he had no record of ever being a problem solver. He had a golden opportunity in his address to acknowledge criticism of the bill for it’s legitimate points which would have added immeasureably to his credibility. He instead chose to scold.

Predictable, but dissapointing. He swayed very few and he needed to sway millions. Fecklessness has it’s consequences.

Like LBJ, FDR,and Carter President Obama has very little understanding of economics. He doesn’t grasp that things cost money and that there are consequences to spending beyond ones means. This blindness is going to be his undoing.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:42 am 138. Donald Last:

I believe Rep Wilson’s emotional shout “You lie” will resonate through the rest of Obama’s term just like Palin’s Death Panels.

One can talk about civil discourse but when a speaker leaves you feeling you are living in an asylum a shout is the only practical response.

Sep 11, 2009 - 3:41 am 139. Steve DeMarcus:

Maybe he needs to keep on giving more speeches especially on prime time so people can be reminded about what an empty suit he is. Just before the speech to school children he had a 52.8% approval RCP then after it he went to 52.4% and now after the prime time snore fest he is at 52.1%.

Apparently less people are buying the message and possibly even more are getting aggravated at him for popping up all the time with yet another speech about the same old thing with no real truth in it nor any specifics.

Joe Wilson while wrong about his approach was correct in his information about illegal aliens being covered by the health bill and the democrats quickly introduced measures to “close the loophole” (I’ll bet there are plenty of those) and seem to be dropping the call for censure of Mr. Wilson who accomplished more by his two words than all the town hall meetings held country wide, that is true power that didn’t take much effort!

Sep 11, 2009 - 4:46 am 140. David H:

98. Vasio, I live in Europe and I see what socialism has done to Europe, we have a load of freeloading elites living it up on top of us poor stupid masses. I know Americans who join together to fix an aged neighbours roof, I have never seen that in Europe. I know the difference between a community that feels and one that is a community in name only, you are European, you are not American.

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:17 am 141. Paul -Indiana:

Obama gave his usual lecture.

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:21 am 142. steveg:

#113..Now and Then…”Hitler was not a socialist” I read this while drinking my coffee, and spewed it on my screen. Read a book, and stop repeating what your favorite stalinist professor told you.

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:47 am 143. Cybergeezer:

99. Banned by Huffpo:
In that case, there’s got to be a term more severe than RACIST; And it’s not rare in todays politics.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:28 am 144. Aureliano:

Many of these folks just plain hate Obama.

What’s wrong with that?

After eight years of the most rancid bile directed at President Bush, under no circumstances whatsoever can anybody on the left EVER AGAIN complain about incivility or even hatred. Not now. Not in a generation.

This is the political environment you created and nurtured; time for you to live in it.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:34 am 145. Sebastian Shaw:

Now & Then (#113), “Hitler was not a socialist,” is about as ignorant as you can get. Read any accurate book on Hitler & you will be proven wrong. The Nazi’s were the NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY; they wanted to control the lives of everyone in every detail from companies & telling you what to buy (this is how the Nazi’s took over Jewish businesses & sent them to die in the camps). Sound familiar? The Democrats want to do the same by telling you what light bulbs to buy by making others illegal from the Communist Green movement. And that’s just one example. Read AUSCHWITZ: A NEW HISTORY by Laurence Rees from how the most infamous concentration camp saw how the Nazi’s work from within the National Socialist Party & its demented leader, Hitler. If you cannot read the book due to your limited attention span, you can also buy AUSCHWITZ: A NEW HISTORY in DVD format. You have no excuses for such ignorance. The History Channel also reruns Hitler shows almost daily.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:45 am 146. Samizdat:

I see from multiple different commentators responses that I must have struck a nerve when I pointed out Hitler’s politics were left, not right. It’s nice to see that Patmanshart,Steveg,Bohemond and David Thomas actually have read and understand the true nature and undeniable political DNA of national socialism.

Predictably, exposure of Nazism’s leftist roots usually provokes a denial when this is brought up in front of a Marxist which illustrates that the Marxist is either ignorant regarding his own pedigree or prefers not to be reminded of it.

You can’t really blame him for the latter.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:57 am 147. Joseph:

112. Adam
I feel compelled to correct you about the famous battle of Tours. It was in fact probably fought closer to Poitiers than Tours for the simple fact that Edward Gibbon wanted any battle associated with Poitiers (1356) to be an English only affair. Don’t want Poitiers to be mixed up with a bloody French victory, don’t you know. Also the story of Charles Martel single handily stopping the Muslim scourge in 732 that isn’t quite right either. Odo, Duke of Aquitaine, at the siege of Toulouse in 721 probably did more to prevent the Muslims from taking what we now call France for the Umayyad Caliphate than Charles did 11 years later. History is so much more complicated than most of us realize.

As for health care how bout we start with four ideas.

1. No rejection for preexisting conditions.

2. No canceling of policies when the client gets sick.

3. Portability across state lines.

4. Like auto insurance every adult has to have some.

So that when you are dying in the streets I don’t have to pay for your care unless you all think public hospitals pay for themselves, or do you want poor folks to die in the gutter? Yeah, what the hell, let’s get medieval and send carts round so folks can throw out their dead. We don’t even have to go back that far, how ’bout something more 19th century and Dickensian. It up to you all to decide, because according to most of what I have read here you all are the only ones that count, anyone that disagrees with you if not sub-human then are just idiots. That goes for the Left as well as the Right. A Pox on both of your houses.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:14 am 148. Ron Kean:

When people call me a racist I automatically think they’re ignorant.

They don’t know me. ‘Some of my best friends are…’ is a cliche. They don’t know anybody on this thread.

NBC ABC and the rest call people names. Who can respect them?

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:40 am 149. Fantom:

For those who want to reward Wilson’s bravery and honest response to the lying obama, here is the place to show your appreciation.

https://secure.piryx.com/donate/WzJc4e8g/joewilson/attack

I just sent him a Ben. We need more like him.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:47 am 150. Jim Baker:

This country was founded on the idea that the citizens would hold the political power and that government would be in place to facilitate the progress toward that ideal. This was an idea that was heretofore untried in history. As a result of this concept, we have become the most powerful country, economically and militarily, in the entire world. Something must have been right about this concept. We have recently elected a government that wants to erase 200 years of progress toward achieving this goal and take us backward to a society which is completely subservient to the wishes of its government. This movement has been tried repeatedly and has always resulted in tyranny and economic failure. This is why it amazes me that Obama called the supporters of this movement ‘progressives’. These people are not progressive, the struggle to achieve our founder’s ideal is what is progressive. That stupid comment is the only thing I remember from this recent Obama diatribe.
Collectivists are Progressives. Sheesh.

Sep 11, 2009 - 8:23 am 151. bobbcat:

32. jharp: “David Thomson:

“Barack Obama is poorly educated.”

Good God I’ve heard it all.

On what planet do you spend most of your time?”

I cannot speak for the good David Thomson, but he probably spends most of his time on the same planet as those of us who realize that a diploma is a piece of paper, not necessarily a testimonial of someone’s level of education.

Sep 11, 2009 - 8:43 am 152. The Infidel Alliance:

This is just more of Actuary in Chief, Barack O’Bullsh*t’s socialist economic voodoo.

Barack “I have a gift, Harry” O’Bullsh*t thinks he’s some kind of Jedi knight who can just wave his hand and make us believe these are not the droids we want. It might work on his brain dead zombie Obamabots, but it won’t work on people who actually have independent, functioning minds.

No matter how high he sticks his nose in the air, can anybody believe O’Bullsh*t when he states matter-of-factly that it will not add a dime to taxes or the deficit? Has there EVER been ANY government program that didn’t cost more than originally advertised, or that didn’t morph into an unending, ever expanding bureaucratic federal bureau-of-bureaucracy? Just look at the Department of Energy.

With it’s new & improved lens, we should focus the Hubble space telescope on the White House, for we are witnessing the birth of a giant new black hole.

~ The Infidel Alliance

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:09 am 153. Vasio:

#140, David H.– I am not European; I was born here in America, that makes me a citizen and I have the birth certificate to proove it… (lol)

No socialism! You guys are arguing and this is what you people are fighting for– The Conflict Theory/ not socialism, but the theory of conflict which is the world we live in; which is based upon the view that the fundamental causes of crime are the social and economic forces operating within society. The criminal justice system and criminal law are thought to be operating on behalf of rich and powerful social elites, with resulting policies aimed at controlling the poor.

The criminal justice establishment aims at imposing standards of morality and good behavior created by the powerful on the whole of society. Focus is on separating the powerful from have nots who would steal from others and protecting themselves from physical attacks. In the process the legal rights of poor folks might be ignored.

The middle class are also co-opted; they side with the elites rather the poor, thinking they might themselves rise to the top by supporting the status quo. So you continue to support the status quo!!!

That is why small crimes, even minor monetary ones are routinely punished quite severely, while large scale financial and business crimes are treated much more leniently. Theft of a television might receive a longer sentence than stealing millions through illegal business practices.

Therefore modern capitalist societies were controlled by a wealthy few who controlled the means of production while everyone else was reduced to the lot of being wage laborers.

From this perspective, certain types of crime take on a different character. Stealing can be seen as an attempt to take away from the rich.

This gives us the materialist view of history starts from the premise that the most important determinant of social life is the work people are doing, especially work that results in provision of the basic necessities of life, food, clothing and shelter.

SO #100 M. SIMON you know economics???
_____________________________________
In America for ceturies there has been Economic exploitation which ultimately leads directly to political oppression, as owners make use of their economic power to gain control of the state and turn it into a servant of economic interests. Police power, for instance, is used to enforce property rights and guarantee unfair contracts between capitalist and worker. Oppression also takes more subtle forms: religion serves capitalist interests by pacifying the population; intellectuals, paid directly or indirectly by capitalists, spend their careers justifying and rationalizing the existing social and economic arrangements.

Finally, (my hands are tired) the economic structure of society molds the superstructure, including ideas and the social institutions that support the class structure of society for example–the state, the educational system, the family, and religious institutions–.

Because the dominant or ruling class controls the social relations of production, the dominant ideology in capitalist society is that of the ruling class. Ideology and social institutions, in turn, serve to reproduce and perpetuate the economic class structure.

So you have those capitalist then you have a Democracy. So thats Capitalism and Democracy.

You have “THE PEOPLE” yelling Democratic Principle to tackle issues, Then You have the Capitalist using democratic principle to solve capitalistic problems… Because Capitalist can never just be said to be capitalist!!

Hope this helps everyone…

Class Dismissed!.

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:24 am 154. Dale:

142. steveg: “#113..Now and Then…”Hitler was not a socialist” I read this while drinking my coffee, and spewed it on my screen. Read a book, and stop repeating what your favorite stalinist professor told you.”

Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

What about that sounds remotely like Hitler’s Nazi movement?

Go back to 7th grade.

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:25 am 155. Vasio:

Please disregard the #100 M. Simon, that was in reference to another patron, but nevertheless the arguement will continue forever due to this Theory and we live it!

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:26 am 156. Cichawoda:

What is the Public Option anyway? http://tinyurl.com/lexfpc

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:16 am 157. Cichawoda:

142. steveg:

Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating state, public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation. It is an economic system distinct from capitalism.

Fascism – a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology and a corporatist economic ideology. Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict. The strong can survive only by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak. In economics fascists support a “Third Way” by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Mussolini called his nation’s system “the corporate state”).

So they are not the same in terms of ideology and economic theory.

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:28 am 158. Mongoose:

Now and Then: stop lying. Hitler most certainly was a socialist. So was Mussolini. National socialism is just socialism applied to race and/or nation rather than social class. What nonsense. Go look it up. You are just fabricating history. This is not a debatable point–it is an unambiguous historical fact. You have no rational, substantive argument here. What you are saying is just not true. Go google the plaftrom of the Nazi party. It reads a lot like the Democrat platform. What a bizarre bit of mental gymnastics you have to go through to hide from yourself the truth of the wellsprings of your “beliefs”. You are in denial.

The agitprop of Nazis being “on the right” was put out by Stalin’s propaganda apparatus. It is one of “Big Lies” of te USSR, and you would know tis if you were a bit older. American fellow travelers repeted it often and and loudly after the war, often at the insistence of their COMINTERN handlers.

It was, of course, the Wiemar Republic that was on the right. They believed more or less in democracy,human rights and free markets. The Nazis were initially a socialist labor movement, they moved on to become a socialist nationalism movement under te power of Hitler. The Nazis were deeply hostile to democracy and Capital, or property rights of any sort. Go read Main Kampf, for Pete’s sake. How could they be “on the right”.

The hostility of Socialist movements in history to capital, individual rights and democracy is a matter of record.

Get your facts straight and be honest enough to face the fact that as a socialist you stand with some of the worst villains in history.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:02 am 159. Hotpatch 6:

Talk about nerve! The president rambles on for 50 minutes to a joint session of congress about the virtues of a plan that does not yet exist!! What are we going to have to endure when he has an actual plan to sell? Better bring a sack lunch and a sleeping bag to that one.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:52 am 160. Cichawoda:

118. A.W. Murphy:
“salvage a proposal that has already been rejected by a majority of the American people”

09/07/09 – before the speech

Favorable / Unfavorable
Barack Obama: 56 / 39
Nancy Pelosi: 33 / 59
Harry Reid: 30 / 59
Mitch McConnell: 18 / 64
John Boehner: 14 / 62
The Democratic Party: 40 / 51
The Republican Party: 22 / 68

09/10/09 – after the speech

Obama Job Approval on Health Care
52% Approve, 38% Disapprove
(8/27-31: 40% Approve, 47% Disapprove)

Has President Obama clearly explained his plans for health care reform?
42% Yes, 43% No
(8/27-31: 33% Yes, 61% No)

Would Congress’ current health reforms help or hurt you personally
22% Help, 27% Hurt, 42% No effect
(8/27-31: 19% Help, 30% Hurt, 45% No effect)

Movin’ on up!! – the Republicans have turned in to such a bunch of cry babies.

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:33 pm 161. The Shadow:

Not surprising that Obama’s speech did not do it for VDH as VDH seems not to give a damn about his neighbors. There is no moral universe for him only himself. In fact, banalities are VDH’s specialty along with distortion.

You do have real military men who are not afraid to tell the truth

BY CHARLES C. KRULAK and JOSEPH P. HOAR
In the fear that followed the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Americans were told that defeating Al Qaeda would require us to “take off the gloves.” As a former commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps and a retired commander-in-chief of U.S. Central Command, we knew that was a recipe for disaster.

But we never imagined that we would feel duty-bound to publicly denounce a vice president of the United States, a man who has served our country for many years. In light of the irresponsible statements recently made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, however, we feel we must repudiate his dangerous ideas — and his scare tactics.

We have seen how ill-conceived policies that ignored military law on the treatment of enemy prisoners hindered our ability to defeat al Qaeda. We have seen American troops die at the hands of foreign fighters recruited with stories about tortured Muslim detainees at Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib. And yet Cheney and others who orchestrated America’s disastrous trip to “the dark side” continue to assert — against all evidence — that torture “worked” and that our country is better off for having gone there.

In an interview with Fox News Sunday, Cheney applauded the “enhanced interrogation techniques” — what we used to call “war crimes” because they violated the Geneva Conventions, which the United States instigated and has followed for 60 years. Cheney insisted the abusive techniques were “absolutely essential in saving thousands of American lives and preventing further attacks against the United States.” He claimed they were “directly responsible for the fact that for eight years, we had no further mass casualty attacks against the United States. It was good policy . . . It worked very, very well.”

Repeating these assertions doesn’t make them true. We now see that the best intelligence, which led to the capture of Saddam Hussein and the elimination of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was produced by professional interrogations using noncoercive techniques. When the abuse began, prisoners told interrogators whatever they thought would make it stop.

Torture is as likely to produce lies as the truth. And it did.

What leaders say matters. So when it comes to light, as it did recently, that U.S. interrogators staged mock executions and held a whirling electric drill close to the body of a naked, hooded detainee, and the former vice president winks and nods, it matters.

The Bush administration had already degraded the rules of war by authorizing techniques that violated the Geneva Conventions and shocked the conscience of the world. Now Cheney has publicly condoned the abuse that went beyond even those weakened standards, leading us down a slippery slope of lawlessness. Rules about the humane treatment of prisoners exist precisely to deter those in the field from taking matters into their own hands. They protect our nation’s honor.

To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. As military professionals, we know that complex situational ethics cannot be applied during the stress of combat. The rules must be firm and absolute; if torture is broached as a possibility, it will become a reality. Moral equivocation about abuse at the top of the chain of command travels through the ranks at warp speed.

On Aug. 24, the United States took an important step toward moral clarity and the rule of law when a special task force recommended that in the future, the Army interrogation manual should be the single standard for all agencies of the U.S. government.

The unanimous decision represents an unusual consensus among the defense, intelligence, law enforcement and homeland security agencies. Members of the task force had access to every scrap of intelligence, yet they drew the opposite conclusion from Cheney’s. They concluded that far from making us safer, cruelty betrays American values and harms U.S. national security.

On this solemn day we pause to remember those who lost their lives on 9/11. As our leaders work to prevent terrorists from again striking on our soil, they should remember the fundamental precept of counterinsurgency we’ve relearned in Afghanistan and Iraq: Undermine the enemy’s legitimacy while building our own. These wars will not be won on the battlefield. They will be won in the hearts of young men who decide not to sign up to be fighters and young women who decline to be suicide bombers. If Americans torture and it comes to light — as it inevitably will — it embitters and alienates the very people we need most.

Our current commander-in-chief understands this. The task force recommendations take us a step closer to restoring the rule of law and the standards of human dignity that made us who we are as a nation. Repudiating torture and other cruelty helps keep us from being sent on fools’ errands by bad intelligence. And in the end, that makes us all safer.

Charles C. Krulak was commandant of the Marine Corps from 1995 to 1999. Joseph P. Hoar was commander in chief of U.S. Central Command from 1991 to 1994.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:20 pm 162. Vasio:

Okay Okay… I will settle this once and for all..

EVERYONE WHO THINKS HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST….IS WRONG!!

Sorry he was not…Hitler wrote, that he didn’t use the term socialist as a Marxist view of Socialism. Or you can call it National Socialism, but not what you guys are indicating… That is if you are still comparing Hitler to Obama. If you are then and you say Obama is a Marxist Socialist, than Obama is not like Hitler.

As with Hitler and National Socialism..It is only surrounded by the Nazi view. That’s kind of like saying the KKK are socialist.. (lol) funny huh?

Further Nazism is a form of Facism as stated by #157. Cichawoda…

The Nazis later sought a Third Way managed economy that was neither capitalism nor communism; it was basically some made up ideology from Hitler.

So Hitler is not a Socialist, a lunatic, racial mureder yes! Socialist– NO!…

Read up about the German Workers Party who later changed their name to Nazi Party…

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:35 pm 163. Joseph:

Stop yelling at each other. Most of us are Americans and few foreigners are going to come to our aid, we are on our own. So start treating each other with some respect instead of acting like a bunch of vicious, bullying children.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:43 pm 164. bobbybb:

Yet, with all the ranting and hate going on here, polls are showing opposite of these rants. Obama still over 50% approval, health care plan going up in favorability, esp among independents. Still are a pretty evenly divided country..can go on the lib sites and find just the opposite of what is here.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:58 pm 165. klrtz1:

I can tell you exactly when I lost respect for Barack Obama. Remember when the Reverend Wright sermons became public last year? I and everybody else knew that Obama should disavow Wright immediately. But Obama didn’t until over 3 weeks later. He delayed taking the action.

He’s making the same mistake now with the health care public option. He doesn’t want to discard it even though everyone can see it’s now a big problem. So he keeps delaying taking effective action.

I don’t know if Obama is highly intelligent or not. I can tell you he doesn’t act intelligently.

Sep 11, 2009 - 3:17 pm 166. Mongoose:

Chichawoda: are you citing that cooked CBS poll? What pollare we talking about here?

Sep 11, 2009 - 4:41 pm 167. Dred Scott:

ACORN won’t be able to save Obama now!

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:38 pm 168. Mongoose:

Cicha: You unwittingly repeat the Great Lie about the fascist movements promulgated officially by International Socialist propaganda organization, and one no doubt given to you by your leftist college professors. Thee truth is that the Fascist movements of Europe all grew out of prior Socialist movements, and were an attempt to introduce Socialism into nations who had achieved some semblance of the following: developed national cultures with with pronounced and proud national tradition and with more or less uniform ethnic compositions, strong and established middle classes, economically developed hierarchical and more or less efficient, modern technological economies with an integrated and well rewarded working class. These sort of “national profiles” are radically different than the societies typically more receptive to the quite formal International Socialist movement which was promulgated by the Soviets, and, as should always be pointed out, quite provocatively and militantly perused in organized manner by the Soviet state inside Europe, the Americas and Asia in this period. The contentions between two forms are one of controlling oligarchies, and national as opposed to international “solidarity”, not ones of fundamental ideological differences on the nature of economic organizations and the totalitarian role of the state.

Fascism is socialism by national and ethnic identity rather than by “class identity”. It is not a form of decadent capitalism or aristocratic oligarchy, it is a nascent form of socialism. It is a particular historical instance of Socialism, one different in orientation than the Soviet control International Socialist movement of the time, but socialist nonetheless.

Likewise there are all degrees of Socialism. The ideologue of the Left, particularly those within the Soviet system clearly ideologically recognized this reality and incorporated it into not only their ideology but actually implemented these notions in the political direct action offensives against the West. Famously, as Marx proposed, Socialism is the path to communism.

We are talking about a historical reality here, not parsing some sort of acadmics obsufcting definition of socialism or fascism by left-wing academics or Communist/Socialist ideologues and propagandists. Mincing about abstract, theoretical definitions of communism, socialism and fascism, confounded them with the real historical definitions and manifestations of the same, goalpost moving, false definitions and cherry picking–or any other of the rhetorical dodges of the Left is merely to indulge in sophistry and casuistry, and, given the gravity of the outrages of these collectivist systems, it is also indulge in deep immorality.

The point ere is that you, unwittingly or not, are obscuring the truth by means of argumentation. Shame on you. The historical reality is quite clear, no what spin you may put on the matter in order to hide from yourself the evil company tat you keep.

This is quite serious business: You need to rise above the indoctrination you recieved in school and face te truth.

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:39 pm 169. Mongoose:

Modertor, please take this post, the prior one had an italics problem.

Cicha: You unwittingly repeat the Great Lie about the fascist movements promulgated officially by International Socialist propaganda organization, and one no doubt given to you by your leftist college professors. Thee truth is that the Fascist movements of Europe all grew out of prior Socialist movements, and were an attempt to introduce Socialism into nations who had achieved some semblance of the following: developed national cultures with with pronounced and proud national tradition and with more or less uniform ethnic compositions, strong and established middle classes, economically developed hierarchical and more or less efficient, modern technological economies with an integrated and well rewarded working class. These sort of “national profiles” are radically different than the societies typically more receptive to the quite formal International Socialist movement which was promulgated by the Soviets, and, as should always be pointed out, quite provocatively and militantly perused in organized manner by the Soviet state inside Europe, the Americas and Asia in this period. The contentions between two forms are one of controlling oligarchies, and national as opposed to international “solidarity”, not ones of fundamental ideological differences on the nature of economic organizations and the totalitarian role of the state.

Fascism is socialism by national and ethnic identity rather than by “class identity”. It is not a form of decadent capitalism or aristocratic oligarchy, it is a nascent form of socialism. It is a particular historical instance of Socialism, one different in orientation than the Soviet control International Socialist movement of the time, but socialist nonetheless.

Likewise there are all degrees of Socialism. The ideologue of the Left, particularly those within the Soviet system clearly ideologically recognized this reality and incorporated it into not only their ideology but actually implemented these notions in the political direct action offensives against the West. Famously, as Marx proposed, Socialism is the path to communism.

We are talking about a historical reality here, not parsing some sort of acadmics obsufcting definition of socialism or fascism by left-wing academics or Communist/Socialist ideologues and propagandists. Mincing about abstract, theoretical definitions of communism, socialism and fascism, confounded them with the real historical definitions and manifestations of the same, goalpost moving, false definitions and cherry picking–or any other of the rhetorical dodges of the Left is merely to indulge in sophistry and casuistry, and, given the gravity of the outrages of these collectivist systems, it is also indulge in deep immorality.

The point ere is that you, unwittingly or not, are obscuring the truth by means of argumentation. Shame on you. The historical reality is quite clear, no what spin you may put on the matter in order to hide from yourself the evil company tat you keep.

This is quite serious business: You need to rise above the indoctrination you recieved in school and face te truth.

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:40 pm 170. Mongoose:

obsufcting=obfuscating

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:43 pm 171. TLM:

157. Cichawoda:

“So they are not the same in terms of ideology and economic theory.”

No one on this site is going to buy your puerile attempts at political taxonomy. “National Socialist” is not a misnomer — the Germans are very particular in naming things (c.f. The Party of Democratic Socialism, a continuation of the East German communist party post reunification). Nazism was a variant of socialism. Period.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:19 pm 172. ETAB:

cichawoda – where do you get your poll data from? Did you know that the CNN poll was scientfically invalid? Be very careful about polls; you have to have objective questions and an unbiased sample. The CNN poll didn’t fit either requirement.

And where do you get your definitions from? Socialism is certainly a system where the state government (not the individual) owns all resources, all corporations and means of prouction, but it most certainly does not mean equal individual access to resources. Nor does it mean an ‘egalitarian compensation’ and what does that mean anyway?

Does it mean that if I refuse to work that I still get ‘equal access’ to resources? Does it mean that if I’m a doctor that I receive the same compensation as a waiter?

Capitalism gives the individual the right to own both the ability to generate goods and services, and the right to the results of the work of this enterprise. Competition promotes quality and price control..both of which are lacking in a socialist system.

And you are equally wrong about fascism, which is not about a ‘corporatist’ ideology; it’s a socialist economic and political mode with the ideological base of a reference to a past ‘glorious history’. It is as expansionist and colonizing as socialism. The two are almost identical.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:23 pm 173. TLM:

160. Cichawoda:

“…the Republicans have turned in to such a bunch of cry babies.”

Right. Who was it exactly who was whining on national TV like a petulant child that the political opposition didn’t like his (unwritten) plan to reform health care? What Party is it that can’t stand the heat when confronted by old ladies in wheelchairs who denounce their stupidity? What political persuasion can’t figure out what to call themselves (progressive…liberal…progressive) because whatever name they use stinks up the word in American English?

And what brand of American had the political courage to call the President a liar in front of the world? Answer those questions truthfully, fool, then cry me a river.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:59 pm 174. Anonymous:

“People with insurance live healthier lives. Because of this, they are more productive at work, earn higher salaries, pay more taxes and purchase more goods and services. Insuring all Americans directly increases aggregate prosperity.”

People who bought insurance that is, because “they…earn higher salaries, pay more taxes and purchase more goods and services”, not people who had a government insurance plan forced on them.

Sep 11, 2009 - 8:54 pm 175. TLM:

Speaking of cry babies, Mondale’s Party in other words, we unfortunately, cannot completely dispose of them without ruining the political dichotomy that rules American public life. There would be two problems in so doing:

First, without Demwits the Republicans would head unchecked to the pig trough with billions of dollars in goodies for their own favored porcine friends. We would have to have an alternative to curb their gluttony. This would not necessarily imply cry babies as colicky as Nancy Pelosi, or as constipated as Harry Reid. And a winsome limp-wristed cry baby wimp like Barry O would very rarely be needed, unless he also promised to entertain us. I don’t mean by giving ad nauseum prime time speeches, but by, say, mud wrestling Rachel Maddow every Saturday night on CNN. That way we could safely bet on the whiny cry baby bitch to win.

Second, we do need to see the Democrat’s childish liberal machinations first hand every once in a while to understand why we remain a center Right country. Jimmy Carter performed this role admirably, leading to 12 years of Republican control of the White House. Bill Clinton started off strong, got cold feet and tacked to the center before finishing with a bang. Eight more years of ‘Pub rule ensued unchecked, unfortunately accompanied by a plague of porkers.

And for their sins we now have the ultimate cry baby serenader in the White House. That cacophonous sound you hear emanating from D.C. is the baby boy-wonder’s siren song, calling all his little grifter Dembot grubs home to suckle once more at the Government teat. Let the Cry-Baby-in-Chief’s wail leave a lasting imprint on your senses. Use it to make your local ‘Publicans ‘fess up to their wayward ways and seek redemption. Only then can the curse be lifted, and three years hence allow our political dual nature to restore the balance.

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:39 pm 176. Charles Kirtley:

Affirmative action + white gulit = President Obama

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:46 pm 177. Anonymous:

103.planet sheesh.man,you’re such a shill!thankfully not as big as one as your man-crush…..the head of media matters;david brock:

“The Real Anita Hill is a controversial 1993 book written by David Brock that claims to reveal the “true motives” of Anita Hill, who had accused Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment during his 1991 confirmation hearings.

Brock now describes the book as a “character assassination” and has since disavowed his writing of the book, though not any specific facts in it. He has also apologized to Hill. In his subsequent book, Blinded by the Right, Brock accuses himself of being “a witting cog in the Republican sleaze machine.”

In March 1992, Brock had authored a sharply critical story about Hill in The American Spectator magazine which became the nucleus of the book, The Real Anita Hill. In this article, he famously wrote that Hill might be “a bit nutty and a bit slutty.”

this gelded peon would obviously WHORE itself to ANYONE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anita_Hill

Sep 12, 2009 - 12:18 am 178. Samizdat:

Mongoose at 158,

Nice job pushing forth the facts. Lefties have a tough time dealing with the reality of Hitler and his political DNA. The Nazis were nothing more than an off shoot of Marxism, a derivative. Marx’s theories have produced the greatest collection of mass murderers in modern history, Hitler being first amoung equals. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all leftists, all mass murderers.

Come to think of it Bill Ayers, the Presidents friend, advocated mass murder of Americans he just wasn’t competent enough to pull it off. Like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin, another leftist.

Sep 12, 2009 - 6:20 am 179. Gaffe Prices:

I’ll let you all in on another secret: This administration and those weasels in congress are yellow bellied cowards; they back down if challenge them, they bruise if you breathe on them- “You Lie” [note the present tense] they lie, they’ve lied, they will lie.

All that is required is to remain silent in the face of it, and be therefore complicit by inactivity.

Think about it: How quickly did they bend V. Jones over, and remove his head, and then offer it up on a platter when Jones’ own self-damning video’s turn up?

I thought they had a little more than a bunch of straw in their constitutions than that, but they couldn’t have caved quickly enough. Jones position is untenable and they folded like a house of cards. They fight dirty, then run away, just like al kaida: that’s why they admire them so much, they are kindred spirits.

Sep 12, 2009 - 6:42 am 180. Gaffe Prices:

P.S. Vasio, you are either a fool or a knave; it is immaterial as to which.

more importantly, you are an agent of the tactic this government engages in when the ruse of their agenda is exposed: Distract Distract Distract

The only troll option left is distraction, so it is therefore easy enough to ignore when we stick to the truth of the matter: its not about “health care” its about control (they are too incompetent to manage the VA, the DMV, Soc security, Medicare, etc), and national socialism is the means. That’s all.

continue.

Sep 12, 2009 - 7:29 am 181. Edwin Irby:

The subprime debacle,TARP, the “recovery bill”, the unconstitutional czars, health care “reform”, the energy bill, drastic cuts in defense spending,and shortly the complete federal take over of education have nothing to do with saving tax dollars, helping our economy to recovery or ensuring all Americans have health care or even that the USA conserves energy, much less prevent climate change. These initiatives do have one thing in common all are a transfer of wealth from those that have had the initiative to produce wealth and those that have become dependent on government for all their care, decisions, and supposed well being.

After years of government failures and gross cost overuns that any one believes that the answer to our country’s problems is more government is profoundly amazing and a good bit bizarre. Especially when those who support dramatically expanded government attack those that dare even question where the present Administration and the Congressional leadership is leading the country.

Sep 12, 2009 - 7:58 am 182. dkb:

Bill at 132

thanks for calling me honest, I am

and as far as obstructionism, maybe perhaps, this thing called Democracy is about different views, and discussion, and ultimately compromise-which your President is surely not incapable of

If one had a successful business, and 80% of the employees were happy-would you tear it down and rebuild for the 20%-no
would you try to fix the problem-yes-with discussion-compromise, ideas-this president has shown himself to do alot of talking, but not meeting the talking points with action-

surely you want a dicitatorship if you want him just to steamroll “change” for the sake of it without discussion-he wanted this passed back in August in a hurry-why is what you should be asking??

obama is meet the old boss-same as the new boss-with 10% unemployment, the hints of Marxism, and more incompetance than Bush…

db

Sep 12, 2009 - 8:27 am 183. william mony:

To all those who lament the comments form conservatives on here, and call us obstructionists, and other names

you Democrats have a Majority. Pass the Bill. Go ahead. I dare you.

come on, they need absolutely NO votes from republicans. WHY?? because deomcrats have no confidence in their OWN president after 8 months of gaffes. If this is not true, pass it. They got the votes if all the BLUE reps vote for it. The president likes to give alot of speeches, now is the time to support your leader democrats.

maybe it is because…

Obama himself, having participated in very little democracy-see Voting “Present” and his Illinois state senate Records, gifts of education from affirmative action plans, and the ” Community Organizer” role aka protection money from taxpayers given to “change” the neighborhoods-neighborhoods he surely didn’t live in.

or maybe because the democrats don’t believe this BILL in its current form will do a damn thing.

if this man believes in what he is doing he will put it all on the line for this bill-and his political career will live or die with the truth, not his speech talking points which never seem to match his actions.

wm

Sep 12, 2009 - 8:42 am 184. cb:

chichiwawa #160

you actually belive those numbers than i guess you believe the stimulus bill has kept unemployment at 8% huh?? or that this health bill will reform health care?? or that obama is pro-gun?? or that obam won’t be on vacation again in a week.

move on provides some good polls when they only poll obama voters-an ever shrinking minority

cb

Sep 12, 2009 - 8:53 am 185. Gaffe Prices:

adendum to @161:

They fight dirty, then run away, just like al kaida: that’s why they admire them so much, and do their bidding,

they are kindred spirits.

Sep 12, 2009 - 1:19 pm 186. howiem:

160. Cichawoda
Did those polls you cite happen to mention whether they polled only people who were watching the teleprompter spoke? A CNN Poll showed that 67% approved after they heard the charlatan’s mouth move. However as CNN did say, the poll queried those who watched, not the public in general. 45 of those polled said they were Democrats and only 18% said they were Republicans: “Of the 427 people randomly questioned by telephone, only 18 percent “identified themselves as Republicans” – according to the poll — while 45 percent “identified themselves as Democrats and 37 percent identified themselves as Independents.”
According to Rasmussen polls, “46% of the population currently support the plan while 51% oppose.”, and Rasmussen polled (unlike CNN) the population at large.
Thirty percent (30%) now Strongly Favor the legislation and 39% are Strongly Opposed.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/following_speech_support_for_health_care_reform_up_to_46
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=53861
http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2009m9d12-Rasmussen-polling-has-good-and-bad-news-for-Obama-following-health-care-speech

These poll results are likely to look worse and worse for Obama as people start comparing his words with what the “plan” actually says and does. And if you look here http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history, the Loser’s approval rating keeps tanking. From a high of +30 to a current -5. It’s easy to talk about polls, provided one knows what to look for, but it seems that the proof is in comparing the words and the legislation. You see, if you are saying that you want the Obama healthbcare plan despite what the people want, aren’t you being the selfish person that Obama told you not to be? If you really want to make an argument, then tell us how a bankrupt Medicare/Medicare and a failing social security program are good examples of how government-run health care will succeed. Tell us how, with only 80% of the plan completed, you can be sure what the remaining 20% consists of ? Show us how increasing competition will not lower costs and prices. Better yet, show us how government meddling and manipulation of the market improves anything. Tell us how all the hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations does not increase costs. Tell us why the Democrats (and other lawyers) are against tort reform that vastly increases the costs of health care. Tell us how, even if illegals are specifically not covered, will they be allowed “emergency” treatment, and will everything then become an emergency? Tell us what happened to the 16-17 million Americans that have disappeared from the number lacking health insurance? Almost every estimate I have seen of the number of illegals in the USA is 12 million. So if Obama conveniently decided to omit illegals, that leaves 5 million unaccounted for. ell us how abortions will not be funded even though they will be funded. Since the countries most often cited for having good health care programs are France and Sweden, tell us if you are willing to pay the tax rates they pay for this care. France pays 21% (social charges) and
up to 50% (income tax). Sweden pays up to 60% income tax. Americans pay 35% federal and 10% state tax. To equal that Americans would have to pay at least 15-25% more taxes. If you think that the rich are going to pay for it all, keep in mind that if not yourself, many people you know are employed by the rich, and the more taxes they pay, the less they have to give people jobs. So if you ae one of those that thinks healthcare can be a free lunch, forget it. If you want lower cost health care then remove the constraints on competition, cap the amount that doctors can be sued for, allow the insurance companies to compete across state lines, and give them incentives to provide health care to those who cannot work and lower cost health insurance to those who make less. There are other things that can be done to lower costs but they involve the free market, not the government, and any government “plan” is more likely to result in disaster than success.

Sep 12, 2009 - 8:41 pm 187. Dred Scott:

Obama’s “Ultimate Goal” sounds creepy, sort of like “Total Solution.”

Sep 13, 2009 - 11:11 am 188. Anonymous:

16 BH:

It is a question of justice. Saddam supported terrorism and paid the families of Islamic suicide bombers to do what was done to us on 9/11. He violated the UN resolution that had a trigger that guaranteed his removal if he violated. He assembled 12 WMD scientists all of whom admitted he told them to reconstitute their vile programs. Only a nut would argue in favor of the injustice of leaving such a tyrant in power who, after 9/11, was the best “example” to hold up to the tyrants of the world. What champion of freedom did not shout himself hoarse with happiness when Saddam was finally hung. Criminal justice is primarily an object lesson in finding the worst and making examples of them to improve the behavior of everyone else. That’s what governments and the UN are supposed to do and why we have governments.56 nations followed GWB in freeing 50 million people, most of whom were the most oppressed group of women in the world. And God said it was good.

And it did not cost a trillion dollars. Most of the troops were already in the Army and would have been paid anyway, and we did free up alot of oil in the process so, net net, it was probably profitable in the long run. God bless those who gave their health and lives, who can never be repaid.

As for spending a trillion dollars on health care so we can make it free and more scarce, without one bit of effort being made to increase the supply or quality, while destroying all the benefits and protections that free markets give us, that is not what governments were set up to do. They should make a profit like everybody is supposed to. Then the trillion dollars could deliver a trillion and a half worth of health care. No one objects to spending a trillion dollars on health care and we will. We just object to doing it stupidly and without market and profit controls so the true outcome will be what it always with elitist socialism. The Trillion dollars just given away will drive the cost of free health care up, and restrict the supply and since there is no free lunch, the greatest health care system in the world will break down in rationing and declining quality. The trillion dollars will disappear, when if it was spent in free markets it would turn into a trillion and a half in no time. And the US government with no productive output, and dependent entirely on the productivity of others will be another 13 trillion in debt it can’t pay.

Bottom line. The trillion on Obamacare will kill alot more people faster and for a longer period than Freeing 50 Million people with a little military might ever did. This is not justice. What GWB did — was. And it will be forever and ever.

BH. What I don’t get is why you don’t get this.

Sep 13, 2009 - 1:40 pm 189. quesnay:

# 187 It sounds even creepier if you use the term final solution instead.

Sep 13, 2009 - 9:03 pm 190. Ron Kean:

161. Shadow

If you should ever read the Professor’s book, WHY THE WEST WINS WARS, he says that because lower level commanders can criticize their superiors and voice contrary opinions, Western military will evaluate, adapt, and win . When subordinates in Eastern armies criticize superiors, they are most likely killed. So your article from the commanders is valid. How representative they are of our greater military is another question.

The defination of torture varies. Gitmo inmates were made to watch BARNEY and played the music of heavy metal bands. Brandishing a pistol and a drill and threatening to use them, putting a caterpiller in a confined area, and waterboarding with an MD and psychologist present to prevent harm is the argument.

And usually ununiformed combatants are shot like our military did to the pirates. Our predator drones are killing ununiformed people in their homes on the Afghan border at every opportunity. Remember, Gitmo detainees leave physically heavier then when they arrive and they eat hallal food.

Reasonable people will agree about torture of breaking bones with pipes, putting cigarettes out on skin, using blow torch fire on skin, and other ways we need not mention but happens routinely around the world. America uses nothing like that.

Cheney has also said that a lot of classified papers have not been released. If the interrogation methods saved a hundred lives in downtown LA like is said, they worked. If selected papers are released only to demonize the past administration, like is said, then some of us are being kept ignorant and angry about one political party only to recruit for the other.

And there is absolutely no evidence that Obama is qualified to be Commander and Chief. He’s snowed a lot of people with a winning smile and vocal cadence. But as I pointed out in my comment #3, sorry, but you really don’t know who the heck he is.

Sep 14, 2009 - 8:11 am 191. Ding:

#186

Dude . . . paragraphs.

Sep 17, 2009 - 3:49 pm 192. Barb:

The Obama Third World Dictator Mutual Admiration Society – Absolutely demeaning, disgusting and childish display of obsequiousness by the leader of the greatest(still) free Republic in the world. Does this wanna-be Ruler of the World have the guts to review his performance at the UN on video? Maybe the family is saving it for Halloween to have a hoot and a howl and real scream.

Sep 25, 2009 - 10:58 pm

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