The ones who are left? They’re either (A) trapped and don’t have the means to leave, or (B) crazy as betsybugs and fanatical about killing Jews and destroying Israel. They have turned Palestine into a kleptocracy, pocketing the millions sent from Israel and other Middle Eastern countries and collecting arms to persue evil goals.

I feel sorry about the (A) class of people, but they need to flee from what are considered legitimate targets by Israel. I have heard some suggest that the remaining Palestinians be repatriated as into Saudi Arabia or other neighboring countries, but frankly, no one wants those people.

Israel does give them power, water, and humanitarian aid. It gives them access to their hospitals. Programs are in place for them to enter Israel. In short, Israel will do for them what no other nation in the Middle East will do for them. Now there is irony for you.

We’re chasing our tails again – Israel wants countries to recognize its right to exist but other countries want Israel to be fair with the Palestinians before they’ll recognize their “right to exist.” And I agree the Arab leaders have been self-serving in exploiting the plight of the Palestinians, but that doesn’t let Israel off the hook for perpetuating that plight.

Meanwhile, the slaughter continues — 70 Palestinians dead in one building, according to the Red Crescent.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4162193/Gaza-medics-describe-horror-of-strike-which-killed-70.html

The sickening thing is that so many will defend this because it probably wasn’t “intentional” targeting of civilians. Explain to me how it is irrational for people to hate a country that is doing this to them? And as Juan Cole pointed out today, it was a similar incident in 1996 (Israel bombed a UN building in Cana killing 102 people who sought shelter there) that first radicalized Muhammad Atta – oh, ya, Israel apologized for the civilian casualties, like that makes all the moral difference. I wonder how many potential terrorists will be radicalized by watching the footage from this assault.

Regards Israel not proposing a realistic two-state solution I think instead that the arab countries are by far more responsible for the situation of the palistinians. The arab countries for too long did not back any serious peace process for to have a true peace would have been equivalent to the recongition of Israel. They were and some are still hypocrites.
It all boils down to recognizing Israel the right to continue to exist.

Are you arguing that were it not for Hamas, the Palestinians would love the country who occupies their land and controls so much of their lives? Why do these people NEED the schools, clinics, soup kitchens, etc etc etc supplied by Hamas. Because they have lived through 40 years of grinding poverty. And tell me, what did the times of “peace” bring them? Did Israel ever deliver a proposal for a true, workable two-state solution? Israel backed and helped fund Hamas long ago as a counterweight against Fatah, and then when Hamas became the bigger threat they funded and backed Fatah, always stoking Palestinian rivals to keep them fighting among themselves (not that they needed much encouragement for that)

What have the last 15 years been? Palestinians stop attacking, Israel expands the settlements. Palestinians start attacking, Israel expands the settlements.

So back to the primary question: do you really think that were it not for Hamas “brain-washing” the Palestinians would love israel?

You say Palestinians being anti-Israeli is due to brain-washing – can you explain how 40 years of occupation by Israel would not cause the Palestinians to be “anti-Israel”?

And most commentators I’ve read think that the reason Hamas won a huge election victory was because people were fed up with fatah’s corruption and because the Hamas organization ran a vast social service network– “It funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. “Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities,” writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services; Hamas’s efforts in this area—as well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruption—help to explain the broad popularity it summoned to defeat Fatah in the PA’s recent elections.”
http://www.cfr.org/publication/8968/

This conflict is not a massive war where we have to choose “sides” because only one can be victorious – Hamas does not pose a threat to Israel’s existence. As for calling for the destruction of Israel, the PLO’s charter called for that too, but Israel eventually negotiated with them and that charter was changed.

I’d love to rebut any points you made, but in two posts you didn’t make any. You pontificated in grand terms about how delusional I am, and yet were too above actually answering any point I raised.

As for: “falsely and unfairly criticizes his own culture, loudly and publicly, to show how magnanimous and equitable his refined sense of judgment really is” I’m more than happy to listen to anything I’ve falsely criticized my own culture about. I give my country credit where I think credit is due, and I criticize where I think criticism is due, as I’m sure you do. But again, you’re above soiling yourself by actually engaging in any sort of discussion, you’d rather simply launch personal attacks.

Charles Gordon:

Sounds great – the Japanese got to keep their nation, do the Palestinians get one? A withdraw to 1967 borders with no settlements (unless exchanged for other land) and true autonomy regarding ports, imports, exports, water rights – which is to say, a nation that actually has a chance to pull itself from grinding poverty, instead of one reliant on handouts that always get snatched up by the corrupt people at the top (the aforementioned Arafat and his ilk)

Maverick:

What of the fact that Israel had kept it’s stranglehold on Gaza all through this “cease fire”, and still launched assassination attacks all through this “cease fire”, and sent in bulldozers (backed by tanks) to demolish agricultural lands under this “cease fire”? There’s plenty of blame to go around, launching missiles (no matter how impotent the attacks are) is terrorism, but occupation/siege is also terrorism. Palestinians attack Israel because Israel attacks the Palestinians because the Palestinians attack Israel.

Another View:

Just a technical point — from what I’ve read American aid to Israel has totaled about $100 billion since 1948, and right now averages around $3 billion a year. A huge sum, but nothing near $10,000 per Israeli citizen per year (although it does equal more than that cumulative (if you count all the aid we’ve given since 1948)) – per year it’s around $400 per Israeli. (wikipedia, among other sources). Otherwise, I agree.